Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Romanian army 1918, Bessaraby, German army, etc...
jirka vrba
Posted: April 17, 2005 12:56 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 24
Member No.: 278
Joined: May 09, 2004



I m interesting in Russian civil war, but I found only a few information about Romanian army in 1918 in czech literature.

Chronology -

27/8/1916 Romania entrance ww1
6/12/1916 Fall of Bucharest
1917 Romanian army fought in North-East part of Romania
Jan 1918 Romanian army moved to Bessaraby
18/2/1918 Beginning of Germ. A-U advance
5/3/1918 Temporary treaty with Central powers
5/3/1918 Treaty with Soviets
7/5/1918 Treaty with Central powers

I don t understand some connections.-

1) Did Romanian army occupy Bessaraby before treaty with Germany? -> It is in time, when most of Romanian territory was occuped by Central powers?

2) Did Germany army advance in Ukraina through Bessaraby?
and When happened it - before conclusion of treaty?
PMUsers WebsiteICQ
Top
Victor
Posted: April 17, 2005 06:35 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



On 15 December 1917, Sfatul Tarii proclaimed the autonomy of the Democratic Republic of Moldavia. A week later, on 22 December the government of DRM requested the help of the Romanian government, in order to resist to the Bolshevik actions. Plus, the railway network was controlled by the Bolsheviks and transports to the Entente army in Romania were stopped. Civil disorder was growing in Bessarabia.

On 21 January 1918, the Romanian Kingdom’s government decided to send troops into Bessarabia (IIRC one division). On 24 January the Bolshevik troops left Chisinau. At Tighina (Bender) there was a 3 day engagement between the Romanian army and the red troops, which ended with the defeat of the latter and the retreat of their remains over the Dniester.

Thus on 6 February 1918, DRM proclaimed its independence and on 9 April Sfatul Tarii voted for the union (82 for, 2 against, 36 abstained).

The Germans and Austrians entered the Ukraine in March I believe. They did not occupy Bessarabia.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
jirka vrba
Posted: April 19, 2005 04:10 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 24
Member No.: 278
Joined: May 09, 2004



O.K....

1) When the Romanian government decided to help government of Moldavia(21 Jan 1918), Romanian govermant was in Iasi, and army defended r. Siret (Romania was at war with Germany and A-U)? ...Because Peace treaty with Central powers was signed later.

2) Was Romanian troops subordinated to command of Romanian front(russian) - I mean in 1917?

3) I saw on a map, which described civil war in Russia, that German troops went through (not occupy) Moldavia. (Maybe it was mistake)

thanks smile.gif
PMUsers WebsiteICQ
Top
Victor
Posted: April 19, 2005 05:34 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



1). Yes
2). I am not really sure about this, but I don't think it wasn't. It was more of a jont Romanian-Russian command.
3). It was a mistake probably.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
jirka vrba
Posted: April 19, 2005 06:06 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 24
Member No.: 278
Joined: May 09, 2004



Thank you for your very quick reply smile.gif

One more question (...I konw, I´m a foult-finder blink.gif )

The armistance on east front was signed on 15.12.1917 (in Brest-Litevsk).
This armistance was only between Germany, A-U and bolsheviks Russia, or it was applied for Romanian troops too?
PMUsers WebsiteICQ
Top
dragos03
Posted: April 19, 2005 06:26 pm
Quote Post


Capitan
*

Group: Members
Posts: 641
Member No.: 163
Joined: December 13, 2003



1)At the time when Romanian troops entered Moldavia, the army was defending the Siret front but without any fighting taking place. An armistice with the Central Powers (the Focsani armistice) was already signed. Romania was already at war with the new Soviet Russia.

2) The Romanian sector was considered a special part of the Russian front. Romanian king Ferdinand was the overall commander of all the troops in this sector, but in fact the two armies had separate commanders. The Russian troops were commanded by a Russian general (first Saharov, then Lecitzki, finally Scerbacev), while the Romanian forces were commanded by the Romanian general (later marshall) Constantin Prezan.
In reality, the two armies fought separate battles, without much coordination between them. When the great battles of 1917 started, the Russian army was beginning to desintegrate because of the Russian revolution. Romanian troops were forced to do the most of the fighting, as the Russian units usually collapsed quickly when attacked.
PM
Top
Victor
Posted: April 19, 2005 06:53 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



Well, I wouldn't say that there wasn't coordination in 1917. Certainly during the battle of Marasesti there was a lot of cooperation and on the Romanian front the Russian forces held together for a longer period.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
dragos03
Posted: April 19, 2005 07:01 pm
Quote Post


Capitan
*

Group: Members
Posts: 641
Member No.: 163
Joined: December 13, 2003



Cooperation is one thing, coordination is something else. Usually the Russian troops didn't attack when planned or they attacked in a different sector. Some Russian units even fraternized with the Germans.
PM
Top
jirka vrba
Posted: April 19, 2005 08:11 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 24
Member No.: 278
Joined: May 09, 2004



1) I find better map, and it´s clear, that no german or A-U units went throught Moldavia. A-U troops went from Kameněc-Podolskij to Odessa on left side of Dnestr smile.gif

2)
QUOTE
Romania was already at war with the new Soviet Russia

There was very chaotic situation in this region. - Ukrainians declared independence in 25 Jan 1918 - what were relations between Ukraine and Romania?
And what importance were rests of old russian army(Rumunian front)?
PMUsers WebsiteICQ
Top
dragos03
Posted: April 20, 2005 12:45 pm
Quote Post


Capitan
*

Group: Members
Posts: 641
Member No.: 163
Joined: December 13, 2003



After the Focsani armistice (December 1917), the Russian army on the Romanian front desintegrated completely. Some units retreated peacefully, others were disarmed by force by the Romanian troops. In some places there were full-size battles between Russians and Romanians, like the battle of Galati.

Relations were good with the new Ukrainian government. After Russia retreated from the war, it was obvious that Romania was forced to do the same, being now surrounded by enemies. However, the Allies hoped that the Ukrainians would be able to replace the Russians on the Romanian front and that a mixed Romanian-Ukraninian army could keep fighting against both the Germans and the Bolshevic Russians. Unfortunately, the Ukrainian government had no real power and these plans proved to be absurd.

After Romanian troops entered Basarabia, the Ukrainian Rada asked them to retreat, claiming that Basarabia was a part of the Ukraine.
PM
Top
jirka vrba
Posted: April 28, 2005 08:59 pm
Quote Post


Soldat
*

Group: Members
Posts: 24
Member No.: 278
Joined: May 09, 2004



QUOTE
Romanian king Ferdinand was the overall commander of all the troops in this sector, but in fact the two armies had separate commanders. The Russian troops were commanded by a Russian general (first Saharov, then Lecitzki, finally Scerbacev), while the Romanian forces were commanded by the Romanian general (later marshall) Constantin Prezan


I have find this OOB:
http://www.genstab.ru/oob_ww1_ru.htm

Romanian front
commander: Ferdinand I.
deputy commander: Sacharov, later Ščerbačev ... I Think, it was role of commander of Russian part.

It agree on.

And about general C. Prezan - What was his apointment ? - Chief of staff ?

This post has been edited by jirka vrba on April 29, 2005 08:33 pm
PMUsers WebsiteICQ
Top
Victor
Posted: April 29, 2005 06:39 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4350
Member No.: 3
Joined: February 11, 2003



Yes, that is correct. Prezan was the chief of the Romanian staff.
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.0104 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]