Is Romania going to purchase Sepecat Jaguars?

F/A 18 demonstrated a thing: what can do a sniper against some targets...

More good things make it ("18") in some books Keith Douglas (Carrier serie) and some Tom Clancy, and maybe other writers... and in war scenario of military training. But, in books readed by me, Hornet have a second place after Tomcats - maybe subjective ideeas of dog-fighting.

In manny publication, Jaguar have only nice words about his action on different conflicts. It is a good plane. And beautyful! I have some pics with AAMs on the upper side of the wings, Oman planes, flying above desert. Nice camo. India knows better why it choose this plane.

Iama

Iamandi,
I are right I agree with you. The F-18 is not a great dogfighter which is what I was trying to imply, when I stated dismal adversarys that it has shot down. I truely believe that a well flown Mig-21 Lancer could shoot one down.

Thank you.

A group of B-24s had more payload, but that does neccessarily make it more effective than a B-1.

The IAR-93 was grounded because of the many problems with the hydraulic and electrical systems. Probably its modernization was seen as not profitable as the Lancer A could do the CAS job better, given its more sophisticated electronics and the possibility to launch "intelligent" bombs. In a similar way, the modernization of the MiG-29 wasn't seen as profitable, since the Lancer C could do its job. Romania can't afford a large air fleet at the present time, so having fewer airplanes and pilots, but with more flight hours is smarter than having more airplanes and pilots with fewer flight hours.

Regarding the IAR-99 Soim. It isn't just a trainer, but it also has CAS and limited air-to-air capabilities and it is more modern than the IAR-93 was. Its avionics, comparable to those on the Lancer, are much better (it can launch "intelligent" bombs) and it is a smaller, nimbler target for the AAA. It is also more versatile and can also make recon/electronic counter-measures flights.

IMO, it would be a stupid decision to buy second hand Jaguars, simply because we don't need and can't afford them. The main target for the RoAF in the following years should be the acquisition of the new fighters (hopefully JAS 39s), the continuation of the IAR-99 program and more C-130s. Maybe even IAR-T UAVs and possible developments. These would be sufficient. Jaguars/IAR-93s, AWACS etc. are useless for us.

Victor,
While I strongly agree with you that the Romanian air froce primary goals should be the acquisition of new fighters, the JAS-39 being best choice; As well as the continuation of the IAR-99 program, buying more C-130s and aquiring IAR-T UAV's. I have a few sugestions of my own, sense 48-36 fighters is far too small a force, for a nation as large as Romania. Romania should try and find ways to get a number of effective western aircraft either free or cheap. If Romania can get Jaguars, which are still very potent stike aircraft; cheap from the British then I am all for it.

Why not develop a more potent version of the IAR-99, surely the British will sell Romania a more modern engine like the Adour 861 or Adour 871 from the BAE hawk. Develop a single-seat version of the IAR-99 with a radar such as the Elta 2001B, which we can take from Lancers as they retire. This would be a far more marketable aircraft and an excellent lead-in/light fighter, which Romania may be able to afford.

Finally when the economy recovers, as it surely will. Romania would be wise to aquire force multipliers including AWACS aircraft, in-fight refueling aircraft and ECM aircraft. These types help make a force far more potent and are sometimes not as expensive as they use to be.


Thank you

This post has been edited by Stephen on October 16, 2004 07:01 pm

Victor, nice one! - with B24 and B1...

As you say, SOIM have a "limited" CAS and fighter capabilities. LI-MI-TED! In Gulf War, winners used some limited aircraft?

IAR 93, after an up date, he may also launch modern "inteligent" weapons.
Jaguar is better then 93.
In this topic i dont say nothing like "let's buy some Jag's".
Jaguar is better then LanceR in air-to-ground missions, and have 1 engine more - a good thing for security of flight.

"nimble for AAA" - maybe for a manually aimed gun. Against a Pantzir or Tunguska? No chance..

Romanian dedicated plane to CAS is just a dream... A F16 or Grippen is more realistic.
Another dream - my dream - si Rafale.

Iama

The Soim may be limited, but it already exists. A possible upgrade of the IAR-93s, which would also have to include the correction of the faults in the hydraulic and electrical systems, needs first a project, which isn't free and will probably be more expensive. Do not compare Romania with the alliance of the Gulf War, as our budget is much smaller than theirs. We have to manage with the funds we have, not dreams of Rafales or A-10s.

Btw, most of AAA a IAR-99 would have to deal with would be manually operated and do not see how a larger target like the IAR-93 would be better. The idea is to employ tactics that surprise the AAA and don't get hit by it.

Victor,
Since the IAR-99 Soim already exists why not improve it? A new engine such as the Adour 861 or Adour 871 from the BAE Hawk, structual strengthening, defensive systems and the development of a single-seat version lead-in/light fighter, with Radar. Would make the IAR-99 a far more potent combat aircraft. This could be aquired cheaply by the Romania Air Force and successfully exported.

The RAF is retiring its entire fleet of Jagaurs, no matter what! The British would surely rather sell them perhaps, dirt cheap; to ally such as Romania then scrap them or allow them to collect dust. The questions, which makes or brakes this deal is how cheap are the British are willing selling them for?

Thank You

Stephen, you know about the price of Jaguars?

Iama

Iamandi,
I am sorry, think that you misunderstood what was saying. I do not know price that the British are asking for the soon to be ex-RAF Jagaurs. What I was trying to say was that, Romania should only buy the Jagaurs if they were cheap enough. That Romania would still have enough money for the Romania Air Force purchase new multi-rolr fighters such as the F-16 or JAS-39 Gripen . If the deal can't be done in this manner forget it, let them keep them.

Thank You

Yeah, RAF dont want to have Jaguars in future...

"We are therefore now able to reduce the number of Tornado F3 squadrons by one, and bring forward the withdrawal of the Jaguar force to 2007. This will allow us to close the air.eld at RAF Coltishall by December 2006."
UK Ministry of Defence

But, for us, some over-upgraded Jaguars are to be ok. It haves more fiability than an air-to-ground LanceR. Maybe with money from public donation, because...

Iama

A future pair of jets for Romania?

Iama

This post has been edited by Iamandi on December 09, 2004 11:56 am

Attached Image

And another picture, at a small resolution, this time.

Iama

Attached Image

Iamandi don't exagerrate with the size of attached images. This image (published in Observatorul Militar, something that you should have mentioned) is already on the internet and you could have posted it using the [IMG] tags. The space for attachments isn't unlimited, so let's not abuse it.

Sorry. I will edit my posts and resize images. I forgot to mention the source...

Iama