French military performance in 20th century

Well, the comparison with the Americans is quite inapropriate.
1st of all, should I take it that you wouldn't object to the US Army using clear-cut terror repression tactics against the Iraqi civilians? I'm not sure about that!

2nd, "pacifists" around the world would have a field day when the multinational force in Iraq decides to surround Iraqi cities with electrified barbed wire and minefields! Remember, Lady Di was an anti-minefield militant, wasn't that lovely? Land mines = very bad, today. Barbed wire = nazism; nazism = very bad, today.

3rd, you can't be serious when you compare the French trying to supress Algerian independence and Americans trying to establish a democracy in Iraq and conclude that the French were great at that while the Americans suck! The French had a military force of more than 400.000 men on the ground, there were about 1 million french citizens in Algeria and there were also some half a million armed Arabs loyal to France! All of these combined in order to keep Algeria as a colony of France - THAT's what imperialism looks like. The French struggled in their attempt for about 7 years! And they failed!

4th and relatively off-topic, there's the odd subject of judicial proceedings related to the abuses, tortures and general human-rights violations that were conducted as French official policy (looking on the internet, I found out that a highly-respected french politician of the 80s was opressor-in-chief in the 50s in Algeria, as French ministry of the interior: mr. Francois Mitterand) - the French settled the matter swiftly and decisively in 1968: everyone that might have participated at executions, or torture, or whatever they thought useful in this last imperial war of France, was amnistied. End of the story.

This thread is about discussing French military actions and efficiency, not hidden political agendas against the US. So loose the attitude and try to discuss things in a civilized manner. I didn't say that the US army "sucks". On the contrary, you will find a lot of people using this word about the French. You want to discuss Irak, do it in the threads dedicated to it. But let's be serious. Calling France imperialist for its aims in Algeria and claiming that the US it's just trying to bring democracy to Irak it's hypocritical. There is no philanthropy in politics.

http://www.manbottle.com/humor/France_s_Record.htm
France's War Record

Victor

I totally agree with your comment , the history is undisputable and France of today despite of their fluctuating policies still favouring Roumania between all former East Block countries...so again I fully agree with your comment !

Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on December 11, 2004 11:01 pm

History. Sine ira et studio, eh? The comparison with Iraq was brought up by you and I tried to refute it. I was sarcastic, I learned that that's frowned upon in this forum, and it won't happen again.
And yes, I'm serious and I'm calling France's desperate and erratic effort in Algeria "imperialistic". The simple fact alone that France gave a general amnesty to all of its soldiers involved in the Algerian repression is imperialism at its worst (and should have raised some eyebrows here, but as I see, so far it hasn't been discussed at all). Now that's what I'd call a consistent incentive for any french colonial trooper and a thing to keep in mind for them. Cote d'Ivoire, anyone?

I saw this I don't know how many times. There are a few funny things inside it.

What I find less amusing is that this sort of horseshit is being served and posted and hosted with such an abundant and angry fervor that the ignorant or the casual reader will swallow part of it. It literally reeks of the republican tactic of burying the target under such a weight of half lies that part of it always gets through. So this is really stuff for Fox News but thanks for posting it on a Romanian historical website anyway

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on December 11, 2004 11:44 pm

While not related to the French military performance, I do believe that the presence of France or other European powers in states as the African ones in early XX century was beneficial regarding the moderinst values. Many African states collapsed into civil (if not "tribal") wars after the "colonialist" powers withdrew,

A similar "historical" evaluation you can find on this very "serious" site:
http://www.i-hate-france.com/militaryhistory.html
No further comments necessary.

Again, the fact that France acted in an imperialistical way, like any Major Power does, is not the issue in this discussion. The issue are the anti-French prejudice of some people and the bad jokes some of them make.

As to your claim that the French army lost the Algerian War, I have to disagree. The war was lost diplomatically, not militarily. The age of the European colonial powers was coming to an end. Unfortunately most of the new African governments weren't really up to the job and a long strings of wars, famines, genocides followed. But that's the subject for another topic.

Hehe. What is interesting is that, when it comes to the spatial/temporal relation between the Celts, the Gauls, the Franks and the future French, the author shows himself to be a completely confused ignoramus

"I hate France"... indeed. No knowledge of any sort needed.

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on December 12, 2004 02:36 pm

Tiger helicopter - developed at the ending period of 20 th century, it seems to be the bennefit of an important up grade. More performance at the propulsion system.

"The Instruction to Proceed covering the development program of the new Eurocopter Tiger HAD version and its MTR390 Enhanced engine was signed in Toulouse on December, 8th, between the Ministries of Defense of the Kingdom of Spain and French Republic, represented by the contracting authority OCCAR, and the industrial partners: Eurocopter Tiger, MTR/ITP, SAGEM and Indra Systemas.

This contract enables the launch of the development program of the Enhanced MTR390 (MTR390 E) for the Tiger HAD. This new MTR390-E version will have a power increased by 14% compared to the existing basic version. This power growth is needed for missions in "hot and high" environmental conditions in which the new HAD helicopter will be operated.

A full contract will be negotiated in the next 10 months to complement this Instruction to Proceed. It will cover the complete development and production investment activities of the enhanced engine, as well as series production for Spain and France with associated fleet support. The development program of the MTR390-E engine comprises 4 years until qualification.

First deliveries of the MTR390-E production engines will start end of 2009.

The Instruction to Proceed for the new HAD Tiger with MTR390-E was jointly signed by MTR GmbH and the Spanish engine manufacturer ITP S.A. (Industria de Turbo Propulsores) based on their agreement on industrial collaboration. ITP will take a considerable share in the development, industrialization, series production and support activities of the new MTR390-E program. For this purpose ITP will become a new partner in the dedicated engine manufacturer consortia called MTRI GmbH, which is currently under incorporation. MTRI is a joint venture including Rolls-Royce, Turbomeca, MTU and ITP.

Foreseen in the Instruction to Proceed is the series production of 128 MTR390-E engines for installation including upgrades of existing MTR390 basic engines.

Until availability of the new and more powerful HAD / MTR390-E version the Spanish user will already start gaining experience with the French HAP Tiger configuration. Six HAP Tigers will be delivered to Spain in 2005 and 2006 in anticipation of the HAD version. The remaining 18 helicopters in HAD standard will be delivered between 2010 and 2014. In order for the Spanish forces to have a homogeneous fleet, the first 6 HAP Tigers will then be converted into the HAD version from 2013 onwards.

France will take delivery of 40 HAD equipped with MTR390-E engines and already declared interest in the upgrade of their fleet of 40 HAP equipped with MTR390 basic engines.

To date, 206 Tigers have been selected by the armed forces of four countries: 80 helicopters each for France and Germany 22 helicopters for Australia and 24 for Spain. The 80 Tigers ordered by the German army are exclusively UHT versions. The first MTR390 engines for these helicopters came off the production lines in March 2002 and were delivered to the customer.

Thus a total of approximately 440 MTR390 basic and enhanced engines including spares are covered by firm production contract orders or by the scope of the Instruction to Proceed respectively.

Originally designed to meet the needs of two countries (France and Germany), the Tiger and its MTR390 engines have conquered new markets, have led to the integration of a new European partner, and are well positioned for further market opportunities such as Turkey."

Source is Turbomeca. A release dated yesterday.

Iama

One of the better documented view of contemporary French fighters at war would be the Falklands. The irony is that the opponent was British and now both countries contribute to the common development of warbirds