Contemporary Wars

Mmm within 4-6 years N Korea will be a nuclear power (if it isn't already). At that point I would be very surprised if anyone still bothers with treathening it militarily. There will be the good old (and slow) economic sanctions but Kim Il Sung XIV (or whoever is at the head) will be little affected by them (only the workers of the communist people of the popular peasantry of the collective land will die from hunger. Never the shining leaders).

What a shit loose-loose situation...

EU approves rapid reaction force

An EU force could act independently of Nato
European Union defence ministers have agreed to set up a military rapid reaction force, to be deployed at short notice to conflicts around the world.
The force, to be in place within three years, will consist of a number of units each made up of 1500 troops.

France, Italy, Britain and Spain will each form a unit, and other EU states will be expected to contribute troops.

Ministers expect the first of the battle groups to be operational by next year, with eight more by 2007.

The development is part of an EU effort to develop an independent defence capacity that can be deployed outside of US-led Nato missions.

UK Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon said the battle groups were not a precursor to the EU developing a standing army.

"Battle groups will be capable of dealing with a range of peace support and humanitarian tasks," Mr Hoon said.

"They are particularly intended for situations where an early intervention with a highly capable battle group-size force could deal with an emerging crisis."

Rapid reaction forces could be deployed to fill a gap before UN peacekeepers can be deployed, as a French-led operation did in the Bunia region of eastern Congo earlier this year.

BBC News

A force to act independently from NATO and before UN. Now EU yet needs a force to act independently of UN and in collaboration with, but before NATO

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on November 23, 2004 12:43 pm

And soon we see at TV images with UE paintings on the turrets! This is great!
Wat's next on the agenda???
Only good thing on making multinational forces a new one, it be a RAINBOW antiterrorism unit.
Wars against who? Rapid reaction against who? For some period was for imaginary enemy of democracy, pointed by the USA. Now, we may fight against new imaginary enemy of democracy pointed by UE? That is the dream of the UE? To be like USA? To be another gendarme of the world? Or, ah! This is it! UE is the one who take place of Soviet Union! A fake, who never will play the role of Soviet Union in counterbalance of power, world influence and dominance, etc.
USA smiles when see UE actions...

Iama

Relax. It seems just a short term solution to handle urgent problems that are beyond UN quick deployment capabilities.

Now, now, Iama. Do not laugh, we have at least a plan to throw a bucket of 6000 troops in a lost hole (with no oil) somewhere in Africa

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on November 23, 2004 02:05 pm

Is like another USA type of action! Thing really important is to train soldiers and to test new weapons systems, or new concept for war, war action, strategical deployment, practice, practice, practice...
Why not this money (spends for that type of action) are not give to research of space, medicine, etc?

Iama

Mmm you need to know the difference between unilateral policies and UN supported actions.

It's certainly important but I would subordinate that need to the first one and not the reverse.

Giving money for space research don't stop genocides.

But it's not like we must choose between one or the other. It's possible to handle both.

oh yeah, a force of 1500 troops will really make a difference.. EU is gettin' ready to replace the planetary gendarme
watch out, uncle Sam!

Geez, mg42 you manage to have it all wrong :

- its not 1500 men
- it's not to replace an imaginary gendarme force
- it's not against uncle Sam
- a force of 1500 man can really make a difference

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on November 23, 2004 08:40 pm

Chandernagore, i give right to mg42! 100 %! Even with "1500"! Just tu upset you!!!!!

Iama

Of course now (and just to upset you) I will defend the proposal that the world needs such a gendarme anyway. The gendarme that we have now only operates in countries with huge oil fieds. There is none for the countries with the greatest needs

This post has been edited by Chandernagore on November 24, 2004 09:13 am

Seriously, now. You think about that UE rapid deployment force scope - it is to serve country who really need help in that way??? You think UE wants to make some mission like ONU style - peacekeeping forces?
UE to spend money for not a precise intersts (like ... oil)???


Iama

I think the goal is to help UN (certainly not replace it !). But UN has many problems, reaction time is one of them. Sometimes you fear some wars maybe over and lost before the UN takes the decision and organize deployment. So yes, a quick deployment force is needed. It must be necessarily small. The bigger your force the more time it takes to lift.

As for interest you seem to me very cynical. Each country or alliance or federation acts to forward the goals into which it believes. EU believes in the (ultimately) superior nature of multilateral relations and concepts such as international laws to solve world problems. So we just act in that direction (no matter how slowly). It may help to increase EU influence, so what ? I do not expect my tax € to go into controlling oil fields.

The EU can be the greatest power the world has ever seen! even Greater then Rome or Great Britian; notice I don't mention US as up their in greatness with Rome and Great Britian. However in order that come to be, the EU must first get new and future members such as Romania into good economic condition. It must also work with "Russia" so her vast resources can be utilised. If the EU can do that, not one nation will be able stand up against the worlds first uber-power!!!......

Thank You

This post has been edited by Stephen on November 25, 2004 06:43 pm

I think EU can take an important place on world stage. It already does, with the biggest economic market on the globe (though that may not last, watch out for China !). However it is devoid of military hegemonic goals and I'm convinced it's a good thing. Raising other European countries' economy has been and continues to be a hard priority task. Countries such as Portugal, Greece and Spain whose economy was in shamble at the point of joining EU are slowly catching up with the others.

Not many Europeans countries remain outside EU and I'm 100% sure that the day will come there will be none (except England if they manage to get kicked out haha). I'm glad you mention closing ties with Russia because I'm one supporter of that. Moscow is every bit as much Europe as Lisboa. Perhaps then, and only then we will be a major player on international stage. I sure hope however that our ideals we not get lost somewhere on the road...

I found some about what you say

"This is the final communique issued by the European Union’s General Affairs and External Relations Council, chaired by Dutch Minister of Defence Henk Kamp, at the conclusion of its Nov. 22 meeting in Brussels:
1. The European Union has entered a new stage in the process of strengthening military capabilities for crisis management, launching initiatives such as on the Headline Goal 2010, the EU Battlegroups, the civil-military cell and establishing the European Defence Agency (EDA). These initiatives contribute to the implementation of the European Security Strategy, enabling the European Union to deal better with threats and global challenges and realising a more effective Common Foreign and Security Policy.
2. Today the EU-member states have committed themselves to implement the new Headline Goal 2010. Commitments have been made to the EU battlegroups – a key element of the Headline Goal 2010 – thus ensuring Initial Operational Capability in 2005 and 2006 an paving the way for Full Operational Capability in 2007.
3. The Battlegroups are at the forefront of capability improvement, providing the Union with credible, rapidly deployable, coherent force packages capable of stand-alone operations, or for the initial phase of larger operations. A Battlegroup will be associated with force headquarters and operational and strategic enablers, such as strategic lift. Interoperability and military effectiveness will be key criteria.
4. The following Member States have indicated to commit to EU Battlegroups, formed as follows:
-- France
-- Italy
-- Spain
-- United Kingdom
-- France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg and Spain
-- France and Belgium
-- Germany, the Netherlands and Finland
-- Germany, Czech Republic and Austria
-- Italy, Hungary and Slovenia
-- Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal
-- Poland, Germany, Slovakia, Latvia and Lithuania
-- Sweden, Finland and including Norway as a third State
-- United Kingdom and the Netherlands

Niche capabilities: So far, the following Member States have offered niche capabilities in support of the EU Battlegroups:

-- Cyprus (medical group)
-- Lithuania (a water purification unit)
-- Greece (the Athens Sealift Co-ordination Centre)
-- France (structure of a multinational and deployable Force Headquarter)

5. Member states are welcome to include the non EU European NATO countries, candidates for accesion and other potential partners in their Battlegroups.
6. The EU Battlegroups Concept is complementary and mutually reinforcing with the NATO Response Force.
7. The member states have commited themselves to address the remaining military shortfalls and to improve the capability development process, taking into account the role of the European Defence Agency and building on the ECAP evaluation.
8. The member states also committed themselves to the use of the available assets, mechanisms and initiatives for strategic transport more effectively through the Global Approach on Deployability.
9. Finally they have agreed to intensify the international military cooperation in order to improve European military capabilities. "
Nov. 22, 2004


Iama