French military performance in 20th century

That is a claim which has no real factual base. I would expect this form an American, but not from a Romanian.

May I remind you that the nation who made the most sacrfifices during WWI from the Entente side and had the lion's share of fighting was France and with its help we managed to create Greater Romania. That is something we must never forget.

And your saying that you would expect this from an American also has no factual basis...

Just for fun, go into google, and search for "french military victories", and then press the 'I feel lucky!' button. Doesn't provide any truth or data, but it's really funny.

As to the original question, while France did have a major part in the fighting, the military leadership performed poorly, which reflected on the performance of the troops. The British soldiers themselves were skeptical of their French counterparts and saved them on a few occasions.

But let's admit WWI was the bright point of French military prowess in the 20th century. Is that a record to be proud of? Since 1870 to the present, how good has its military record been?

Now, to make things clear, this has nothing with 9/11 and the French-US tensions. I couldn't care less about those. I've held this opinion for a while.

Let's talk about Henri III, Henri IV, the religious wars, the Flanders campaign from 1580 onward, Louis XIII, the XIV, even the French Revolutionary army who kicked Europe's ass though the country was still in the chaos of the revolution, etc....
Yes, my hat is off to the French troops (and its foreign mercenaries) of those times. Some great generals, too, although the positions were bought through appointment...

France has a great historical past filled with courage and amazing individuals. Which is why its recent military performance of the last 100 years is even more disappointing. It just doesn't hold up to the "golden days" of France.

On the contrary. Just browse the net for discussions related to in Irak in the past 2 years and you will see a lot of mud thrown at the French mainly by Americans.

I prefer not to joke about men who fought and died. How do you feel when you hear jokes about persons with little knowledge on the subject that start to talk about Stalingrad and Romanians? Trust me it is not a good feeling. Think about that before enjoying yourself too much.

France has won many wars since the defeat in 1870 the war with Prussia up to WWII. I could list the 1883-83 war in Indochina with the Chinese, the 1895 war in Madagascar, the 1903-1934 pacification campaign of Morocco, the Druze rebellion in 1925 in Syria and of course WWI.

WWII in 1940 was something special because at that time nobody in the world could face Germany on land. Don't forget that Britain also suffered a terrible defeat and if hadn't been for the English Channel and the Royal Navy the Wehrmacht would have marched through Trafalgar Square. Yet you don't hear anything similar about the British, do you? The following French participation in WW2 is less known. Maybe you should search out Bir Hakeim or Normandie-Niemen.

After WW2, France was involved in Indochina, from where it eventually had to pull out as, like the Usa decade later, lacked the political will to fight the war. In Algeria the army won the war, but the politicians decided to pull out. I can also mention the intervention at Kolwezi in Zaire in 1978, the first Gulf War in 1991, Kossovo 1999 etc. Like I said: facts.

Let me add a joke, which is circulating here in (the English part of) Canada:
"Why are there no fireworks in France?"
"Because at the first 'pop' all of them would jump up with raised hands and shout: <<don't shoot, I surrender>>".

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 26, 2004 08:30 pm

On a more serious note, France did NOT win W.W. I. Germany lost it (remember, the frontlines on November 11, 1918 were all outside Germany).

Gen. Dénes

Not an undefensible position given that everybody's leadership performed poorly during the first 3 years of the war.

And was quite succesfull comparatively to the Americans if you take into account the limited airpower at their disposal and the fact that they had to control a much greater country than just south vietnam with much more limited ressources. In fact several solutions the French came up with where quite innovative and clever, like the "groupe mobile" strategy, the ability (and political hindsight) to create mixed French/Vietnamese light formations, the fortified camps to break the bones of the Viets like at Na San. Well, yes of course they underestimated the foe at Dien Bien but it cannot be said that, in the big picture, they where beaten militarily. The political front collapsed.

Well, Chandy, I'd say the German Army's leadership performed rather well in the first years of W.W. 2.

Gen. Dénes

We can not say that the France alone defeated Germany, but as Victor said France had the lion's share...
About Germany "loosing" the war, as Imannuel Geiss said (and he get to have an objective opinion in this matter), it is a myth or a way of speaking...
Personally I think that we can call the Germans cowards because they didn't have the guts to continue the fight and to take "the final blow"... Because this would have being the result of continuing the fight.
As for the frontlines ... this should be an argument...
I remember reading the memories of a German officer that presented two main reasons for the Germans' defeat: the big amount of Entente's tanks and the lack of ressources... The tanks, the officer said, made the German defense line to be pierced at any moment without any posibility of fighting back.

Well, Chandy, I'd say the German Army's leadership performed rather well in the first years of W.W. 2.

Gen. Dénes

I was thinking WWI

The Algerian campaign is itself a good case study on how to defeat guerillas.
In 1957 the 1st Foreign Parachute Regiment eradicated the terrorist network in Algiers, which regularly placed bombs inside the city (sounds familiar?) and killed many people. The army took over the rural administration, which had been destroyed by the rebels and protected the villages. During 1958, the 1st Foreign Cavalry Regiment patrolled the Tunisian frontier, from where the rebels received much help (there were training camps in Tunisia), and with 3rd and 4th Foreign Regiments and the 1st Foreign Parachute Regiment eliminated intruders. The 5th Foreign Regiment patrolled the Moroccan frontier. The frontiers were fortified with electrical wires, mines and legionary garrisons and eventually ended up stopping 95% of the intruders. Then as the pacification policies paid up, the Army started to hunt down the rebel groups in the mountains in 1959-60 and eliminated most of them. But even though the rebels were defeated militarily, they won politically.

We can also add the defense of Tchad with operation Manta in 83.

A war won before it has even begun as Khadaffi was simply detered from moving on Djamena by the French deployment

joke :
Q:What are 100.000 people with their hands up?
A:the french army

Everybody is a comedian these days.

Mg you should made the "joke" more universal

joke :
Q:What are 100.000 people with their hands up?
A:the [insert most hated country here] army

The French army didn't won or lost more battles then the British.
The British weren't conqured by the Germans in ww2 due to the "channel" and American aid.
In war it's imposible to win all the time.