Tidal Wave Footage Photos, 15th AAF and Luftwaffe, 'Black Sunday', 1 August 1943

[/QUOTE]Doesn't have the "SMP" stamp in the corner? [QUOTE]

No, this particular picture doesn't have "SMP" stamp ( Serviciul Militar de Propaganda). I would like to know who was the photographer for these series of pictures with 53sq. because they are wonderfull pieces of art.

For Florin request ( to show that nobody want to hide anything about Tidal Wave on this thread)

The civil victims after Tidal Wave raid were 80 death ( 61 from women prison ) and aprox. 170 wounded ( 80 from the same prison).



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The source for this data is from National Museum.


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Florin

When I and my mates on here started the topic and discussing the history ARR of WWII , of course we all know what war means, as Cantacuzino mentioned, in every war there are sensless civilian casualties ,and not only those who unfortuntely lost their lives in Ploesti on the ground ,but if you will also millions of others who've lost their lives in Russia and whole Europe due to Luftwaffe as well ARR involvement in Russia ,milions of death in Pacific due to the Japanese vision to expand , the many Roumian soldiers who lost their lives for a battle which was NOT one of their own , and all this just for a mentally deranged war criminal called Hitler who plotted his sick dreams and fantasies through " Mein Kampf" when he was completing a jail term in Bavaria arested by his own volks and who found enough friends in Europe to complete his murderous dreams and comit somany atrocities.

However, it seems that you forget to point out one thing, Hilter black gold was a very important factor for the strenght of the Luftwaffe during the war, due to that strenght hundred of thousands of civilians lost their lives in Europe and would have still lost for quite a long time , if Hitler would have continued to get fuel supplies from Ploesti...you also forget that the airmen who've lost their lives in Ploesti they did it for you and I ,and the comming generations to live in a better world without tirrany and war atrocities and not as you state ! ...they had families too and they wanted to come back and be with them like you and I would do .......

Every war has its price and greatest danger in the war is the war itself which notoriously was started by politicians and tirans such as Hitler, Musolini, Tanaka, Antonescu,Stalin etc and not by the airmen of any Air Force , RAF , ARR.etc ....These airmen didn't belong to the SS, SD,SA or Iron guards of Antonescu and they don't come on purpose to kill civilians but deter the enemy,obey orders and defend the principles of their countries.

I hope I made myself clear and I am out of this topic which may become a sticky one as I dont think its has anything to do with TIDALWAVE or any other topic on the ARR forum which deals with military history ...because otherwise we have to rename the forum .

Alx

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 19, 2005 02:48 pm

Dan, here is a message I got from a mate of mine J.Buchanan in the US about the OLD BALDY and bellow is what he is writting :

Old Baldy (98th BG, 345th BS) was "lost near target", Ploesti, August
1, 1943 (Operation Tidal Wave). All crew aboard were lost. They are:

Frank A. Norris--Tsgt. from Texas (engineer)
Joseph E. Finneran--1Lt from Massachusetts (bombardier)
Worthington A. Franks--1Lt. from Texas (navigator)
John J. Dore, Jr.--1stLt. from New York (pilot)
Max W. Lower--Tsgt from Utah (radio)
Josep[h] R. Iosco--[no rank][from New Jersey?] (gunner)
Paul W. Packer--FLTO from Wyoming (AR)
Wesley L. Jones--Ssgt. from Kansas (tail gunner)
John B. Stallings--2ndLt. from [?] (co-pilot)
Ray L. Gleason--[no rank] [from Michigan?] (listed as AR and also
photographer)

John B. Stallings is buried in the Ardennes American Cemetery in Belgium.
According to the American Battle Monuments Commission, "The remains of
SSGT Ray L. Gleason were repatriated to the US
for interment at a private cemetery in Michigan; SSGT Josep R. Iosco,
is interred at in a private cemetery in New Jersey."

The remaining seven crewmembers are listed by the American Battle
Monuments Commission as "lost in action/missing or among the
unidentifiable or non-recoverable."

According to the Sortie Report filed 8/1/43, Old Baldy "left Benina
Main flying #1 in element 2 of 3 a/c in section 4. Arrived over the
target carrying 6 x 500 lb. G.P. nose fusing, none; tail fusing 45
sec. delay, and 4 boxes of incendiaries flying #5 in section 4. As
most the the a/c crashed, in that part of the section, a short
distance beyond the target, it can be reasonalby inferred that Lt.
Dore released his bomb load on the target."

"13 pink B-24s are reported crashing from the left of sections 4 and 5
in which there were only 4 such ships. Major Hahn's crew alone
reported 3 crashes in this part of the formation. Lt. Fravega's 3, Lt.
Sternfels' 3, Lt. Blevins' 2, Lt. Salyer's 1, and Lt. Morgan's 1."

"Lt. Morgan's crew reports seeing 1 parachute open, Lt. Sternfels'
crew reports seeing 3 parachutes open, while two men jumped and hit
the ground before their parachutes opened. Lt. Sternfels' flying
position #10 of section 4, reports that half-second after coming out
of the smoke over the target saw one pink B-24, 300 to 400 ft. to his
left, with wheels down, not on fire, headed for a green field under
control and that it probably made a safe landing."

"Lt Blevins flying position #4 in section 4, reports that from an
element ahead and to his left, a pink B-24 skidded off the left and
bellied into a dust colored stubble field, kicking up a large cloud of
dust. He saw no smoke or fire."

"Lt. Dore told Intelligence Officer, before leaving, that he intended
crossing the target with full bombay tank, because he had auxiliary
wing tanks. This a/c being one of a very few reported crashing without
burning, may, therefore, have been his."


Al

Dan , here are some details about the Ploesti TW crew burials, you need to copy and paste it on Word Document in order to properly view it as it cant be expanded on here.




389th Hughes Hughes Dalton Malcom Ft. McPherson Nat'l Cemetery Maxwell NE Group burial
Helder Ron Ft. McPherson Nat'l Cemetery Maxwell NE Group burial
Hughes Lloyd Ft. Sam Houston Nat'l Cemetery San Antonio TX
Kase Louis Private
Mix Joeseph Ft. McPherson Nat'l Cemetery Maxwell NE Group burial
Mc Loughlin John Ardennes American Cemetery Neupre, Belgium DOD: 8/3/43
Pear Sydney Private
Wilson Avis Ardennes American Cemetery Neupre, Belgium

Horton Emerson Elwood Ft. McPherson Nat'l Cemetery Maxwell NE Group burial
Herlevic Frank Private
Horton Robert Private
Hull Charles Private
Krug Richard Ft. McPherson Nat'l Cemetery Maxwell NE Group burial
Kauffman Robert Ardennes American Cemetery Neupre, Belgium DOD: 8/4/43
Smith Jack Ardennes American Cemetery Neupre, Belgium
Smith Mack Ardennes American Cemetery Neupre, Belgium
Lambert James Ardennes American Cemetery Neupre, Belgium DOD: 8/4/43

Al

The pink B-24 who made a safe landing in a corn field could be "Boiler Maker II".
The place was near Trestieni village ( i will check the map if it's near Ploesti)

From Grigorescu ( book) , the Old Baldy crashed on 88mm rom. Flak gun position in SE of Ploesti near "Manastirea Ghighigiu". A cross stone was raised in the place comemorated the names of romanians lost in that B-24 crash over AA position.

Could anyone explain this:

"Specialisti necesari strangerii placilor incendiare si a bastoanelor explozive" and this one... "3.048 lovituri de carabina" ? For the last one, they used carbines to shoot against bombs? Parachutters? Or ... against B's???

Iama

I dont expect to say: hey they are engineers. No, what is "placi incendiare" and "bastoane explozive" - i know about incendiary bombs are like "bastoane" (*sorry, i don't know the right word).

Thanks.

A vilage by the neme of Trestieni is around Bolintin Vale (E of Bucharest) it donsen't apear on www.multimap.com but is there for sure.

Only the germans used all the armament ( rifles) to shoot at the bombers becouse of low altittude attack and huge dimensions of B-24 ( hard to missed in guns sights). The romanian used only 20mm, 37mm, 88 mm AA guns against the B-24.

Are you referring here to Mr. Antoniu or myself? Or perhaps someone else? Please specify.

BTW, I totally agree with your point. I also try to note the original photographers' names, when I received the photo directly from them.
However, some of these veterans told me that they don't want/care to appear as "historical figures" in any publication.

Gen. Dénes

I reffered to all authors in general not only romanian so i can't give names ( there are so many).
I appreciated that you try to mention the name of the real genuine source in your books for the pictures. It was a bad hobby to collect only the pictures without asking the genuine owners more data about them ( who are the people in the picture, aprox. year, the place where the picture was taken and so on) and today it's difficult to ask ( becouse most of the vet.are gone) details for the pictures.

Dan.

It's not their choice. THEY are in history book no matter if they wanted or not wanted this.

Yes Dragos, sorry it looks like have the SMP stamp. I checked with a magnifier ( i told you it was a small photo) Maybe i have to buy a pair of glasses ( I am not younger anymore).

Dan


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