Tidal Wave Footage Photos, 15th AAF and Luftwaffe, 'Black Sunday', 1 August 1943

Jim

Once again our gratitude for your contribution with the CHUG A LUG photos.....It a great honour getting your help

Best Regards
Alex

Dan and All

Is there anything which could be done about the situtation beneath ..George emailed me the photos of his uncle with the request that we look into this subject

Alex

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Hello Alex,

The above photo is of my uncle, Sgt. George Kaylor. He was a gunner on 'Margie' piloted by Lt Clarence Gooden. Gooden's remains were identified after the war and returned to the states. My uncles remains were not identified. Is it possible that dead flyers recovered from their crashed planes were buried together?

Again, any information and photo's you could share would be greatly appreciated.....

Thanks,

George




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The first of two photos of the crew of Black Jack. The photo with the crew in pith helmest appears to have been taken prior to the second.

Black Jack, 41-23661, 98/345, Ploesti target White IV, 8.1.1943

Hahn, Delbert H., Pilot, Diverted Sicily
Viewers, John W., Co-Pilot, Diverted Sicily
Nowak, Nathan, Navigator, Diverted Sicily
Vengelen, Raymond F., Bombardier, Diverted Sicily
Baird, Robert L., T/Sgt., Engineer, Diverted Sicily
Creighton, James E., T/Sgt., Radio, Diverted Sicily
Chapman, John H., S/Sgt., Gunner, Diverted Sicily
Foster, Leslie J., Gunner, Diverted Sicily
Washburn, Curtis, Gunner, Diverted Sicily
Klein, Isadore I., Tail, Diverted Sicily


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The second of two photos of the crew of Black Jack.



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Again, outstanding resources and photos never seen before Jim, many many thanks !

Alex

Alex,
Thank you for your posts of the photos. I sent them to you for all to see. I received most of them from Bill Hubbard of Tucson, Arizona. He is, I believe, Charles Young's nephew. Young was the regular co-pilot on TUPELO LASS, but on day of Tidal Wave, K.O. Dessert Flew as pilot and Jake Epting flew co-pilot. Charles Young was a gunner over Ploesti. Also on board TUPELO LASS that day was Ray Wierciszewsi (Ray Wier). He was the ground crew chief for the plane and flew is one and only air mission. This was told to me by K.O. Dessert before his death.

Regards,
Joe Gonzales
San Antonio, Texas

Victor

Many thanks for the chart , its of a great help. Do you by chance know where
is the women's prison in relation to the Columbia Aquila Refinery is ? Is it to the north or west ?

We are trying to find out the exact heading JOSE CARIOCA was flying towards the refinery.


Thanks
Alex

Dan and All

I am trying to identify this aircraft name or number for Jim into the TW, I dont have it stored on my data bases

Any clues ? let me know

Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 29, 2005 06:56 pm

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Alex, Bob Sternfels posted a reply on the Tidal Wave site this a.m. and identifies this crew and plane as Kate Smith. Thanks Bob for the help.

Kate Smith, 42-40991, 98/345th, lost over target White IV, Ploesti, August 1, 1943.

Deeds, James A, Pilot, KIA
Foster, Clifton C., Co-Pilot, POW-ROM
Montemurro, Francis V., Navigator, KIA
Scarborough, Theodore F., Bombardier, KIA
Leising, Frank E., Engineer, KIA
Howie, James M., Radio, KIA
Cupina, Joseph T., Gunner, KIA
Oleenik, Adolph, Gunner, KIA
Potts, John W., Gunner, KIA
Pimlott, Donald A., Tail, KIA

Jim

Many thanks for KATE SMITH...I have a problem with this specific aircraft on the TW. According to M.Hill it flew as KATE SMITH, later on, both Chris and Bob and others too corrected me and told me that KATE was under maintainance on the TW day and the aircraft which crashed carried only reg numbers

Whats the truth about that iussue..I am rather confused..bellow Chris comment

Alex

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Guys,

I think the general consensus among most Ploesti researchers is that the Kate Smith aircraft that appears in Black Sunday while being repaired at a depot is 42-40654. The official caption on this photo says that the picture was taken on November 1, 1943. This aircraft is almost certainly the one that John O'Grady describes cracking up in Libya on July 29, 1943, just prior to the Ploesti mission. In the 2nd AD article, he even mentions that the aircraft was Kate Smith and aircraft "654". 42-40654 arrived with the 98/345 in late June 1943 and was flown exclusively by Deeds (and Deeds only flew 42-40654) during June and July until O'Grady's accident with the aircraft on 7/29. That puts a strong connection between Deeds and the Kate Smith named aircraft.

That brings us to 42-40991. Could it also be a Kate Smith? Possibly yes, but there really isn't much evidence since it had a very brief USAAF history. Most researchers carry it as an "unknown" name, if any. 42-40991 was a late model B-24D that arrived in England between late May and mid-July 1943. For this reason, we suspect that it may have been painted OD vs. desert pink. It was flown to Libya by Lt. Demelik of the 389th BG around July 18th, and then re-assigned to the 98th BG. It was flown to Ploesti by Lt. Deeds as a replacement for 42-40654, and they were lost near the target.

The new picture in question, in my opinion, is either:
42-40654 with the Deeds crew prior to the application of the Kate Smith artwork.
42-40991 with the Deeds crew just prior to the Ploesti mission, and confirming that this aircraft was un-named
Another post-42-406xx aircraft with the Deeds crew
Without more info such as a date on the photo, or confirmation on whether 42-40991 was OD or pink, I don't know if we can determine the answer. Another clue may be the cheek machine-gun in the greenhouse. It is installed with an unusual mount compared to other B-24D's I have seen. I am searching to find even one other similar mount. Perhaps it was just an ad hoc solution in the field, or maybe it will give us a clue to the aircraft's identity. For example, I have seen slightly similar mounts on the port side of Fort Worth built D's in the 42-63xxx series.

Feel free to chime in with corrections and additional information.

Regards,

Chris / 389 bombardment group / TIDALWAVE


This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 30, 2005 12:59 am

Bob , Joe ,Earl you guys logged enough flight time , I address this issue to you .

Did "Lady Be Good" fly a beacon or did the Radio Off. request a QDM bearing ? If a QDM you fly the reciprocal heading the station gives you as earl stated, did in fact they notice flying way way outbound on a QDR or MH ? or was their ADF receiver damaged ? I also recollect that Bekka was working a VDF bearing on them though no radio contact could have been established.

Also, I am aware that the navigators log contained no information after hitting the target, the pages were blank.

Since once they passed the Nort African coast line at night couldn't the Navigator make sextant check in reference to the aircraft path rather than fly into nowhere ? ...how could they overshot the Bekka beacon so deep into South East ( 180 miles away from the field)

Let me Know your opinion

Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 29, 2005 10:11 pm

Re Kate Smith photo. The aircraft under discussion is from the 98/345th -- that is a certainty.

Here is one assumption: One plane from the 345th that participated in Tidalwave is unnamed in the database I am working from. That plane is 42-40991, lost over target White IV, Ploesti, August 1, 1943. James A. Deeds was the pilot. If someone can id the pilot or any crew, then we can further determine that it is either 42-40991 or some other plane.

Let me do some more research on this aircraft and get back to you.

Would there be any chances to get pictures of Hail Columbia and Suzy Q as those are my up and coming projects for later on this year.

Another thing is that I read somewhere that the forward firing machine guns were fixed rigid and somehow wired to the control column so the pilot could open fire. Is this another myth or did it really take place on some machines?

Artur

OLD BALDY AGONY
==================

THIS TRANSLATED PROM A ROUMANIAN MILITARY MAGAZINE WHICH
COLLECTED THE TESTEMONIES FROM THOSE SERVING THE GHIGHIU
MONESTERY LOCATED CLOSE TO THE A/A BATTERY AS WELL GROUND
WITNESSES, THIS IS THEIR STORY TRANSLATED BY ME ( NOT ONE OF MY STRENGTHS)

Possibly none of the aircrews involved in the TW have watched better their
own end coming than those of the OLD BALDY piloted by Lt.John Dore Jr
a young Lt from the Garden City state of NY. He has made out of his
own death the mirror of those who were just killing him. He barely
flew passed the crater which has become the mostly bombed target of
Ploesti, namely WHITE TARGET 4 the Astra Romana refineries , the
target of opportunity of the TRAVELLING CIRCUS and exclusively
reserved for the “Killer” Kanes PYRAMIDIERS .The OLD BALDY managed
to get unscaved out of the target and all it took them was to rejoin
the formation to the outbound rally point back back tor Lybia to the
Lette Airfield where a Pyramide was built from the remains
of the German mechanised divisions and aircraft wreckages bordering
Sahara.

Unfortunately the fate of the OLD BALDY was already sealed on the segment
flight to the rally formation point . Directly beneath them there was an 88 mm
flack battery equipped with an A/A gun nick named " Voinicu" ( mighty ) under
the command of young gunnery captain called Cosmin Istrate of the 86th Battery
of the 7 Anti Aircraft Regiment which dispersed their entire units throughout
the counties of Berceni and the Monastery Ghighiu located on the exit road to
the junction with the main national motorway road Bucharest Ploesti and
Bucharest – Buzau .

The A/A amo loading soldier G.Bala was about to charge into the "
Mighty" a preset 500 meter (1500 feet ) altitude detonation shell .
The other 5 battery members were waiting for the captain orders. The
gun operator Pvt 1st class Ion Garlan saw all of a sudden into his
bore sight a bomber which was getting like a silver knife out of the
curtain of the black smoke covering the refineries and alerted the
battery commander on the approaching bomber directly into the mouth
of " Mighty" .

Through his binoculars Captain Istrate adviced the crew to make a
reduction of aiming angle and signed to the crew to get ready
and open the fire at the OLD BALDY . The soldier Alexandru Partica
nicknamed " The Old Man " because at 35 years old he was the oldest
and yet at lowest ranked ,covered his both ears with his hands as the battery
crew was getting ready to fire the gun. The soldiers Constantin Disdedea
and Tudor Ghiaur froze waiting near the gun awaiting for the firing order
while the soldier Paun Ozel who delayed his marriage ceremony in the
last minute even though he received a one day leave pass which he
opted to not make us of instead remain on duty was getting ready to pull
the firing lanyard .

The American bomber was approaching the battery head on head with
buzzing engines at full throttle and as he approached within 500 meters
range to the guns mouth , they recognised the deadly danger beneath
them and have all opened the fire against the battery….But before the
bullets of the OLD BALDY would hit the battery , Captain Istrate gave
the order to fire. In less than seconds the shell has perforated the
front of the OLD BALDY fuselage and detonated near the bulkhead on
the rear fuselage .





The airplane was lighted from one end to the other like a blitz which
surprised the crew of OLD BALDY on their rendezvous with the death .
For a moment the OLD BALDY looked uncontrollable and the likelihood
that someone on the flight deck managed to remain alive after such detonation
was simply impossible…and yet we must deduct that someone on the flight
deck on his last minute agony maintained the last few hundred meters course
heading and dive angle before impacting the ground and possibly deliberately
or not to steer the bomber into the "Mighty" battery. The crew of the battery
noticed the agonising huge dark object trailing all over smoke and breaking apart
with the mutilated chin heading directly into the battery ,dropped all they had in their
hands and started to run for their lives .

None from the Bomber and the Battery managed to survive and
intruder and defender met their faith together . On the edges of this exit road
passing to the junction Ploesti South , there is a small white stone cross
in the memory of the crew of the battery who perished on their duty .
From the wreckages of the OLD BALDY 10 burned and thorn corpses of
American airmen which we identified based on the crew records from
Maxwell AFB Alabama we can confirm the following :

Pilot Lt John F Dore , Co Pilot 2nd Lt John B Stallings,Navigator 2nd
Lt Frank Worthington, Bomber Fospeh Fineran , RO Sgt Max Lower ,
Gunners Sgt Ray Gleason ,Joseph Iosco,Jones Wesley,Frank Norris and
Stanley Packer.

A priest from the nearby Monastery Ghighiu from where we heard the
story of those 17 brave soles , they made for all the crews who
perished on that August 1st day , a memorial service and farewell to
the mighty lord . Other airmen who fought on that day over the skies on
Roumania at only 50 meters above the ground, they have all passed in the
history known or unknown into the eternity .


Alex




This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 31, 2005 12:43 am

Alex,

I just sent you a photo of Ivan Canfield and Charles
Young. Canfield was the co-pilot on JOSE CARIOCA.

Here's a photo of Ivan Canfield and Charles Young. It
was sent to me by Bill Hubbard. It's the only known
photo to exist of Canfield who was the co pilot of JOSE CARIOCA .

He is the one on the left. He was my mother's first cousin. The rest of his crew
called him Junior. You can see why. I know the photo is a little blurred but maybe you can fix it up a little. It looks like they took the photo in front of
HONKEY TONK GAL or LUCKY. I wonder how may more planes of the 409th had this emblem on the left side of the ship. Hope you like this one. Canfield and Young were best friends.


Regards,
Joe Gonzles
San Antonio, Texas

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 30, 2005 12:08 am

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