SOVIET BOMBERS OVER CONSTANZA, strange ukraine aviation articles

Dan

Roger your comment Dan was not directly addressed at you but was general.

What I meant is something else....is appropriate for you , Denes and others to correct details of large relevance , which by the way I did it too shortly ago regarding the RAF Bomber Command losses over Bucharest in one night.....however I noticed that people on here are repeatedly trying to make a point on someone else account .....on how many rivets a wing had, reg.numbers of an aircarft and as you noted from our new guest Aleks the Serbian Aero Club President justified remarks but also through your own experiences .

Due to these small details the climate on here is deteriorating on daily basis and that deters people from further posting messages and photos , eventually giving up their inclinations towards this forum and looking for other forums....which if occured it would be a really pitty.

Therefore , I am asking you , Dragos, Victor and Denes to restrict the remarks / corrections to rather wider issues than easely remarking of having seen the photos elsewhere ....or like someone else told me when I started the Russian topic that all stuff in available on the Internet.......which I repeat unlike many of you on here , I dont not use the Internet as reference but vet pilot friends, histoirian friends, 15th AF Groups, USAF and Soviet AF friends ,military archives ...in addition to these facts check this link MAJOR DER LUFTWAFFE RUDI KLEMM........people like "Bubbi " Hartmann, G.Rall , Rudi Klemm, Grislawski, Pokrishkin family , Rob. K Morgan ( Memphips Bell pilot) Vitali Popkow and many other vets pilots US and Soviet Astronauts dealt with my company in the past and as such the info gathered is strictly reliable and from people who were there and NOT on Internet .
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As a result of repeated climate deterioration of this Forum I am postponing posting further messages unless the climate on the ARR forum will change and until we will all act as men and not PMS'd women who're seeking to pick fights , period.

Bellow a photo received personally from Grislawski which I hope you guys will enjoy it.

Alex

This post has been edited by Victor on March 01, 2006 03:48 pm

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This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on February 28, 2005 09:16 am

Alex, I think you are overreacting. I mentioned that photograph is known in contrast with the previous photo you posted, with "Alba Iulia", which is knew to me. I did not mean this as a reproach, but as a observation. I also think Dan did not mean to criticize you, just to make a correction. I hope you reconsider your decision of not posting further.

I have edited my post, it was not an appropriate choice of words. I meant nothing wrong.

Just calm down all of you.

This post has been edited by dragos on February 25, 2005 05:43 pm

Coming back to topic, the caption from "Romanian Navy in World War II" (Modelism, Bucharest, 1996), reads:
"The destroyer MARASTI is escorted in mission by German Arado 196 sea planes"

Dragos

I got your point, try to get my point too...there are people on here who barely post a thing and soon something get posted they assume the role of QC / Censor/ Teachers you name it....As such no wonder on the last weeks I am one out of few on here getting edgy and shwoing signs of resignment....I am asking again all involved to be more tolerant with eachother avoid personal vendetas and competions , explain issues more diplomatically and spare rivary for the next Olympic games

Alex

The Romanian shîp Ardeal hit by both Stormoviks of the Russian Navy and by torpedo modified Maruders . The ship was inflicted serious damage on April 22,1994 while leaving Sevastopol . Its engine was severly damaged . I have no details on howmany casualties were inflicted and if the ship reached Constanza


Russian Naval Air Archives

"Ardeal" was damaged (fire on board) on 17 April 1944, in Sevastopol harbour, while embarking troops for evacuation. The ship survived the war.

Dragos

The Russian source cites that was hit enroute to Constanza while carrying EVAC troops escorted by the ROM Destroyer Marasesti . At 11:42 was under attack by 2 IA-62 which dropped two torpedos from short distance though missed the target.

At 14:00 6 X Bostons have attemted an additional attack though forced to retreat by BF-110 Rumanian fighters and one Recon FW-189 -....later was confirmed that ME-410 Hornisses were involved.

At 18:15 two torpedos from unknown source were fired again at Ardeal but missed the target. At 20:17 as it almost reached Constanza was hit by a torpedo from an aircraft or a Russian torpedo boat got damaged and remained unserviceable for troops transports .

sometimes Russian sources have a lot of errors , do you have any details and photos about this event ?

Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on February 26, 2005 11:52 am

Romanian sources mention only two submarine attacks on the Ardealul on 22 April 1944 and no damage to the ship.

Victor / Dragos

My Soviet Navy Vets as well people I have contact with checked at Sevastopol arhives again...Ardeal engine room was severly damaged while close to the Axis approaches into the Port of Constanza most probably by a Toorpedo boat . the ship become unserviceable .


Bellow torpedo boats manufactured by the aircraft manufacturer Tupolev seen in Constanza.

Victor and Dragos if you have other sources and if Dragos has the modelism book about that incident howabout posting some photos and more details ? I would be happy to send them to my counter parts

Naval Aviation Archives Sevastopol

This post has been edited by Victor on March 01, 2006 03:49 pm

Alex, this discussion is slowly moving to the Navy section of the site. Please look through this older topic about MTB successes of the Soviet Navy. You will notice that there is no mention of Ardealul by Kirill or by Miroslav Morozov.
See here: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1016

As for the Romanian sources:
1. The official report made by the undersecretary of the Navy, maj. gen. Nicolae Sova, on 15 May 1944 only mentions a fire onboard while the ship was at anchor in Sevastopol on 17 April 1944. Nothing else regarding it.
2. The vol. 2 of the Marina Romana in al doilea razboi mondial by Nicolae Koslinski and Raimond Stanescu does not mention any damage to the ship during the trip from Sevastopol to Constanta on 21-22 April 1944. Only two torpedo attacks were reported, presumably by submarines: at 1110 hours, some 125 miles from Cosntanta, and at 1723 hours. The convoy entered the port 2318 hours. After the second attack, when two torpedoes were spotted, the NMS Marasesti and the UJ 2332 searched for the presumed Soviet sub.

Victor I undertand, as you can see the sources have various opinions..its hard for me to determine the accuracy of the info as I have only Russian sources

Bello some photos of the Russian Navy IL-4 crews who attacked Alba Julia along with IL-2's


from Naval Aviation Archives Sevastopol

The Sqd crews of VVS IL-4 (joint AF) who participated on the attack against ALBA JULIA and German Rumanian convoys together with the Russian Naval IL-4's photographed some time later after Sevastopol was liberated .Note the aircraft carries the Red Banner order with which the Sqd was decorated


Photo Albume : Rear Admiral Kisanow

This post has been edited by alexkdl on February 28, 2005 12:37 am

Attached Image

soviet soldiers fire into the air on May 12,1944 celebration liberation of Sevastopol.


Russian Navy

Attached Image

According to Russian Navy sources thats the Destroyer Regina Maria torpedoed later on during the retreat from Sevastopol by Russian Subs and IL-2 dive bombers( on the photo the russian text states Regele Maria )

Russian Navy Archives

This post has been edited by Victor on March 01, 2006 03:52 pm