T-3 and T-4 photos

I don't know the source and the route of the first batch of T-3s and T-4s received by Romanian Army, but if you read the articles on the site, you will see that beside the 22 delivered at Don's Bend to 1st Armoured Division, one more T-3 and T-4 were delivered to 2nd Tank Regiment in country for training. The photographs you speak of may be those two delivered to the 2nd Tank Regiment.

This T-3 at Don's Bend seems to have retained the German cross (source: www.modelism.ro)

Very strange... I have also seen a photo with a T3 at the Don's Bend (in an “Top Gun” magazine issue) but it was taken from a different angle, so the German cross could not be seen (as I remember). The images with the T3 and T4 tanks I was talking about are both on this site, at the Weapons/Armour/T3 (respectively T4) section. They both show what appear to be a column of tanks (at least two vehicles in each photo) and apparently were taken in the same place. The vehicles had no markings at all, only some registration plates in front. So they cannot be the tanks received by the 2nd Armored regiment since it received only one T3 and one T4. And I think the pictures were taken before the battle from the Don’s Bend because after that, according to what we know, only one T4 and two T3 from the first batch survived and there’s no way that they could have no markings. Also, there wasn’t another T3 delivery...

Is this a T-3 (Panzer III) or is it a T-4 (Pz IV D or maybe F1) ???

Is this a T-3 (Panzer III) or is it a T-4 (Pz IV D or maybe F1) ???

Those are certainly the wheels and the chassis of the Pz.Kpfw. III Ausf. N!

This post has been edited by PanzerKing on March 08, 2005 04:38 am

Off-topic, to clarify the issue of the T-3/T-4 pictures from the site

If you look carefully at the pictures, starting with the T-4, you notice that after it follows the T-3, and then a R-2. So unless we find what was in front of the T-4, or after the R-2, we have evidence of only one T-3 and one T-4 in this series of pictures.

If you look carefully at the pictures, starting with the T-4, you notice that after it follows the T-3, and then a R-2. So unless we find what was in front of the T-4, or after the R-2, we have evidence of only one T-3 and one T-4 in this series of pictures.

OFF-TOPIC AGAIN

What we can see in those two picture is a T4 followed by another tank (in a photo), and a T3 followed by another tank (in the other photo). No vechicle could be seen in front of the T4 or in front of the T3. If the photos were taken to the same row of vechicles, it is possible that the T4 was the first of them. The vechicle from the back of the T4 could be a T3 but it seems to me also another T4 (see the picture, Weapon section\Armour\T4). And the tank from the back of the T3 (photo in the Weapon section\Armour\T3) indeed looks like a R2 (from the shape of the gun), but can we be sure about that? There's a fabric cover on the barrel of the gun, so i'd say it's not so clear...

This post has been edited by Agarici on March 08, 2005 06:53 pm

Here are the larger pictures. The first T-4 in the row is U-039253.




The same T-4, from a slight different angle. Behind it is is the T-3 number U-039252.




And here is the T-3 number U-039252, with the R-2 number U-039223 behind.

Here is a picture with the T-4 number... U-039253 !



The caption reads: "Bucharest, 10 May 1943. T-4 tank of the 1st Tank Regiment opening the parade of the 1st Armoured Division, recently arrived from Stalingrad front. ... During the fights, 10 out of the 11 T-4 tanks were lost." (source: Armata Romana 1941-1945, 1996)

So it seems that the series of photos showing the T-4, T-3 and R-2 in a row are from the 1st Tank Regiment after the Battle of Stalingrad, therefor I may have been wrong in my initial statement, that they are from the 2nd Tank Regiment.

The question now is: why don't have the T-3 and T-4 in the column German markings?

The possibilities are:
1. The picture from Modelism shows a German tank, but the tanker seems to be wearing a fur cap specific to Romanian troops, so I think it is a Romanian T-3. Unfortunatelly I don't have a better picture of this.
2. The tanks were repainted sometime between the delivery and May 1943, but with no markings.

The picture from Modelism definately shows a Romanian operated vehicle, on larger prints of the photo the Romanian national insignia can be made out just forward of the vision slot on the right hull side.

Cheers,
GJ Balin