Favorite Pilot ?

With all the respect Alexkdl, you haven't really answered my question.
Try to answer it (not necesarily here) and maybe you'll find my point.
So assuming that Thomas Mc Guire downed 38 enemy planes, thus being the second USAF ace , recieved a CM, and an airport now has his name, would you, as an American like to hear that he was a weak pilot and a incompetent commander-that's assuming that we all here know the circumstances of his death?
Thank you in advance.

This post has been edited by 109 on January 30, 2005 09:05 am

109 since you started posted you only tried to flame this thread.Lets analize a little mr. Denes's post:

As you can see in the first part of his post he is asking Maresalu' why he made that choice... nothing wrong with that, I would have also asked him the same question for it seems to be a rather odd choice, so curiosity rises and we would like to know why that choice was made.

Here he is talking from a historical point of view, telling the facts and not bringing any personal feelings into the matter.So as a historian he did this part well.

Here is a personal opinion, stated as a conclusion, a conclusion that any man is entitled to - historian or not !


So, he asked Maresalu about his choice (which is a very normal thing and if he would have not asked I would). then he stated the facts from a historian's pow (which you cannot argue) and finally he stated his personal opinion as a man, an opinion I am sure others also have.


There would be more to say about mr. Toma and his suspect death, but I will not start it because I am afraid of a negative flaming.

109 please, you seem to have good knowledge of aviation history and english language, instead of flaming this comunity please help us find out more interesting things about those days.I am sure more people will be happier this way.

Mytzu I welcome your comments and that's the way to go.

109 my answer to you was already stated it will be counter productive to get into that issue again - I know McGuire AFB ( btw I was there many years ago along with Tyndall AFB and Eglin AFB on exchange training ) and the history of McGuire but as stated earlier on this disussion turned to be negative and I won't get into .

I would appreciate your postive energy and your good English knowledge being positively spent on a new subject under this topic or a new topic rather getting stuck into something of a personal nature,period.

I would also appreciate knowing what is your background

Alex

This post has been edited by alexkdl on January 30, 2005 05:45 pm

Here is a personal opinion, stated as a conclusion, a conclusion that any man is entitled to - historian or not !

Mytzu, Mr. 109 missed a crucial point: the whole issue was related to the so-called "Western Front", initiated by Der Maresal's pick. Therefore, my opinion was directed only to that period, namely the only mission Cpt. av. Lucian Toma flew against the Axis on Sept. 25, 1944. Probably, I should have been a bit clearer, so to anyone on this board - regardless of the level of his/her English command - it would have been unequivocal.

Obviously, Toma was a very good fighter pilot - testimony to this are the seven enemy airplanes he had downed. No question about it. However, on that single mission he made - in my judgement - a series of errors, detailed in my post, which ultimately lead to his death. That was my whole point.

There are other ARR pilots who certainly performed much better against the Germans. Personally, I would pick Adj. av. Dumitru Chera, who aboard his I.A.R. 81 had a lenghty air battle with a superior Luftwaffe Bf 109G (I hope we can agree on this) and emerged as a victor, scoring one of the very few ARR air victories over a German warplane on the "Western Front".

All I initially wanted is to generate a positive, scholarly historical debate, based on what we currently know, without any personal feelings being involved. To my disappointment, it didn't turn out that way, but quite the opposite.
Obviously, some are not yet up to this challenge.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 30, 2005 05:50 pm

I'm sorry, you still don't get it Denes.

The poll was about the member's personal (therefore most of the times subjective) option for a pilot. When Maresal chose Toma Lucian , not only it wasn't your job/obligation to comment on his choice but doing that in what i regard as a disrespectful and unnecesary manner you discredited yourself .
Now that you made your statement a little more clearer maybe he (and most of us) may rest !

See you!

109, when you disagree with someone's idea, challenge the idea with arguments, do not attack the poster. At least this is the way I like things to be done in this forum. You are new here, but I espect you to read the forum guidelines and respect them in the future.

From my point of view this off-tpoic discussion is closed. Get back to the main topic.

As I am new here, I would like to express my opinion...
The moast I like is Erich Hartmann form Germany and Serbanescu From romaniens
Also I have a great respect for Walter Nowotny, Hermann Goering, Ruddel, Dobran, Milu, Cantacuzino, Lungulescu and others...
But my Idol still remains the best fighter pilot with his record of 256 airplanes shoot down, Erich Harmann...

Did you say Hermann Goering ( Meier) ? did ever hear what the old Luftwaffe pilots thought and still think of of him ? mind to share your views on why you consider Mr Meier as the best pilot yours ? I am just curious

Al

As I already said, let's keep the discussion focussed on Romanian pilots.

Not the best... the best is and remains Erich...
Well in the early times of the war, when he was flying, before he had the command of Lufhwaffe, he was a good pilot, one of the best at that time... but after he took the comand of Luftwaffe he begun "to loose the flight" as he was not very good in his new position, poeple remember him as a bad commander... not as a good flyer... I don't remember the number of his victories over sky of France, Belgium and UK but he had a lot. Without this as i knok he find new tactics when he was in command of his squadron to hunt down the Spits and Hurris.
This is why I considar him ont of the top.... but NOT the best...

Sorry for getting out of the subject... But as the question was put I think was best to ansqwer here...
Sorry again and I hope I will not get banned

For getting back to the subject the best Romanian fighter pilot I belive was Serbanescu...
If Alex Papana would fly in the war... mabe he would be the best... anyway he was the best acrobat in the world or at least in the top 3

Edited: thinking of Alex Papana and writing about Bazu Cantacuzino...
Sorry for mistake...

This post has been edited by Devil of the Sky on February 07, 2005 02:20 pm

I think Papana was better then Bazu Cantacuzino.

Iama

Hey Devil, what do you mean " If Cantacuzino would fly in the war... " He flew most of the time in the war ( and the final numbers of victories were higher than other romanian pilots )

Dan.

OOOOOOOOPS my mistake....
I was talking (thinking) about Alex Papana....
Sorry again...

Now, you upset Dan "Cantacuzino"!

Iama