Hawker Hurricane in ARR

Denes, can you help Aleks and sent to him a copy scan of that romanian document specifing the 15 numbered rom. Hurricane ?

He was very kind with us with all that info.

Thanks in advance,
Dan.

Hi Mirek, thanks for info. Do you know if it's only coincidence between the british serial numbers and yugo numbers for Hurricanes. I mean only the letters could be different ? but both are with 4 digits. The british factory build start with L 2???, and for yugo start with BR 2???.

Dan.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on February 24, 2005 06:36 pm

I am already in contact with Aleks. In fact, I even met him in person, some 15 years ago...

I don't have a photocopy of the document I was referring to (Hurricane No. 15), only hand written notes.

Finally, I don't think there is a correlation between the Yugoslav A.F. serial numbers and the original British serial numbers, despite the coincidence.

Gen. Dénes

Dan,

I’m breaking my promise not to post again. I must tell you that I was pretty angry, and with reason. But from your post I understand what the problem was!
You were looking for match of serials if I understand well?
It’s waist of time. But it’s also my mistake partially because I didn’t point that there is no connection between VVKJ serials and British serials. Beginning of both serials with number 2 is pure coincidence. Starting number 2 in VVKJ serials was reserved for all fighter types of a/c used by Royal Yugoslav AF.
I also noted Mirek’s post. Those serials are not correct.
Mirek, it seems that you made typing mistake?
Correct serials for all Yugoslav Hurricanes are:
First batch from Britain: 2301-2312
Second batch from Britain: 2313-2324
Final batch (license): 2325-2348
There was also final batch of 24 Hurricanes in Rogozarski Factory near Zemun. Airplanes were 87% finished and curiosity was that constructions were prepared for installing of Daimler Benz DB601A engines that were on VVKJ stock in numbers. One prototype was finished in March 1941 and take role in active combat with 2.Fighter Regiment. Plane vas renamed to LVT-1.
Reserved serials for final Rogozarski batch were 2349-2372. Unfortunately it was never realized.
Alex, were did you learn Serbian?

Regards,
Aleks

Hi Mirek,

You mention that some captured Hurricane photos are published in your book. Serial is 2347, right?
I saw picture of that same serial in AF Museum, starboard side of Hurricane in front of hangar and in left upper corner is visible nose of Do-17K. Are we talking about same photo? You also mentioned that there is another photo of that same machine. Did I understand well?

Regards to you,
Aleks

Hi Aleks, thanks for understanding. I have some news for you regarding Yugo Hurry in ARR service. I found a rom. document with the status of romanian planes used (in Barbarosa operation) for eliberating Basarabia. And surprise the number of Hurricanes used on front line was 13.
In 1940 we received from British 12 planes but in the same year we lost one plane with Cpt.Draganescu ( test pilot) who crashed after a low pass roll. That means in 1941 ARR had only 11 Hurricanes left from the first batch. The 2 Hurricanes added at the begin of Barbarosa were 100 % yugo planes. That means ex.Yugo Hurricanes fought against soviet army. That explain picture with Hurry in ARR with fabric wings. In my opinion the initial number of Draganescu lost plane was given to one of 2 Yugo plane in 1941. The picture with Hurry number 12 with axis markings help me for this conclusion.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on February 25, 2005 10:15 am

Attached Image

If someone know what was the number on Draganescu Hurricane we can assume that the same number was given to replaced Hurricane from Yugo batch.

Below picture with Romanian Hurricane nr. 12 with axis markings in 1941.


Attached Image

Hi Mirek, can you post some of this pictures with captured Hurricane. Probably the romanians keep the original cammo and only overpaint the national markings.

Maybe i can find a picture of rom.Hurry to match the yugo cammo.

Dan.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on February 25, 2005 11:09 am

Hi Dan,

thaks a lot for the document. From my point of view that is ARGUMENT.

Camo on Yugoslav Hurrie's was:

Upper, three tone, ochre/dark green/chocolate brown, very similar to French camo's.

Lower, single tone, mixiture of light blue and light gray.

If you need Federal Standard markings I have them somewhere. Let me know.

Regards,
Aleks

The 3 ex-Yugoslav Hurricanes were delivered to Rumania just before the start of the war on East (I already wrote this to Aleks). They received the tail numbers 13 to 15.
In ARR, no old serial number was re-issued to a new airplane.

BTW, the document you posted - copied from a book - is not accurate regarding the Hurricanes (I didn't cross check the other airplane types).
The 2 Hurricanes given as "Damaged" were, in fact, written offs. One was shot down in air combat, while the other one, an ex-Yugo Hurricane, was destroyed on ground by strafing Soviet fighters.

Gen. Dénes

Based on the info given by Aleks, what camouflage colours were on the rag-wing Hurricane you mentioned?

Gen. Dénes

Hi Alex,
You are right, I have made type error, in my book is the same (p.17, p. 18).
LVT-1 was from the begining a hybrid (HC I + Me 109 engine DB 601A) - lovac vozduchno technicki (or similar).
It was send to 2. Puk on 7 IV and send to action on 8 IV lost due to problem with cooling system. Pilot forcelanded and plane was lost.
Ad photos yes theses are 2 photos, which cooming from my collection, most probably I have published them first.
Regards

Mirek Wawrzynski

PS
Hurricane in Foreign Service is about (Belgian, Finnish, Yugoslavia, Rumanian, Soviet Union, Italy and Germany users of HC. There are >120 b&w photos 37 colour drawings, text main in Polish but extanded English summery, there are 72 pages, on glossy paper, size Europe standard A-4.
Book was printed in March 2001, in Poland.

600 Hawker built Mk Is ordered 3 June 1936 to Spec. 15/36
L1547 - L2146. Contract no 527112/36, powered by R-R Merlin with Watts wooden two-blade fixed pitch propeller and fabric covered wings, delivered from 15 Dcember1937 and 6 Octomber1939.
L1751(1-205), L1752(2-206), L1837(3-291), L1838(4-292), L1839(5-293), L1840(6-294), L1858(7-312), L1859(7-313), L1860(9-314), L1861(10-315), L1862(11-316), L1863(12-317) to Yugoslavian Air Force - serial in brackets.
L2077, L2078, L2085, L2093 to L2097, L2104, L2112 to L2114 to Romanian Air Force 8 to 9.39.
300 Hawker built Mk Is
N2318-N2367, N2380-N2409, N2422-N2441, N2453-N2502, N2520-N2559, N2582-N2631, N2645-N2729. Contract no 751458/38, powered by R-R Merlin III with de Havilland three blade variable pitch propeller. The first 80 aircrafts had fabric covered wings and remainder metal wings. Delivered 29.9.39 to 1.5.40.
N2718-N2729 to Yugoslavia 3.40. .

Mihai

I am sorry was not a color picture. The picture it's not in my personal collection and i can not check such details. The only thing sure was fabric wings( judging by hatch guns in the wings as in drawings) and romanian mecanics changing ammo.

The three tones of Yugo cammo it's hard to recognise from B&W pictures if they are not so clear. Probably only the number on the fin could help for the issue with rom.ex yugo Hurry.

Dan.

If you allready had such usefull information for Aleks why you waiting so long to let him know

Mayby my posted document was not a perfect one ( indeed is a copy of a document made after the first campain but it's not a fake ). At least i try to help Aleks with what i could and i warned him that one general D. will sent me to Martial Court if i fail. So who knows a good lawyer for me ?

Dan.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on February 28, 2005 07:55 am