ROMANIA'S TERRITORIAL ISSUES

The limits of this topic are of course the forum guidelines, but I feel it can be a good place to discuss face-to-face any territorial issue that Romania had or has with it's neighboroughs. And they are not so many.

Of course, I hope to "steal" the postes from Denes' topic related to Vienna Diktat/award (an effect) and search the causses of the issue.

Another "HOT ISSUE" is Bassarabia and Bucovina (with Ukraine) and Cadrilater (with Bulgaria).

With or without this topic, theese issues exists and as you all agree, ignorance is not an option - for both sides.

So, come with proofs, comments and let's study the problems.


I'll put the first question:

what are the reasons for Hungary to claim Transilvania and what territory would that be? Do they have an historic right for this claim?

I'll come back with an answer myself


Cheers,

Barbosu

This post has been edited by Barbosu on March 08, 2005 12:32 pm

Barbosu (and others), in order to get a more balanced view on these hot issues, you should invite knowledgeable persons from those countries involved in the territorial issues you mentioned, to present their side of the topic. Otherwise it will be a one sided deal.

Gen. Dénes

P.S. Don't forget Banat from your list.

This post has been edited by Dénes on March 07, 2005 11:10 pm

Denes,

Thank you, and I hope you will help me by inviting whoever you think it could help. I already found some hungarian sites and it is in my intention to invite them to this forum. I will do the same with Ukraine, Rep. Moldavia, Bulgaria and Serbia.

AFAIK Romania and Serbia settled any territorial issue a long time ago, but ... ok!

Please do the honours and give an answer to my questions. I asked you the same on the topic on Vienna and got no answer (no reproach, maybe it's not the place, but this one is).

Thanks again,

Barbosu

Oh boy, here we go... The gates of hell are opened...

So, according to http://www.magyarorszag.hu/angol/orszaginfo/tortenelem

all began in 895 with:

"The Conquest - Arriving from the East, the Hungarian tribes conquer the Carpathian Basin under Árpád's leadership".

In 895, the Hungarians arrived in Pannonia coming from the steppes of Niper River, being chased out from there by the Pecenegs (Vlad Georgescu - The history of Romanians, Ed. Humanitas, 1992).

For this point both parts will agree.

Should we start the debate from 895?

This post has been edited by Barbosu on March 08, 2005 12:34 pm

Thank you "Imperialist" for appreciation.

I count on your help on this topic.

Barbosu

That depends what do you mean by "long time ago".

In 1919, Rumanian and Serbian soldiers repeatedly clashed in Banat, as both sides wanted to secure the largest territory possible before the demarcation line would be drawn in the newly acquired territory.

That's the right thing to do, IMHO. However, I'll try not to get involved much in this 'hot' issue, as I have already received enough flak from certain members who appear to loathe me, probably due to my Hungarian ethnicity and can't see beyond this. Luckily, they are in minority here.

If you wish, however, I can give you the addresses of a couple of Hungarian history forums and you can post your invitation directly over there.

But first, I would suggest you to write a PM to those Hungarians, who are already members of this forum.

I have to disappoint you again, Barbosu, as I am not going to answer the questions you raised. This mainly because I am not knowledgeable enough in the pre-1848 history. Also, despite the efforts of some to cast me as such, I am not representing the point of view of the Hungarian historiography. I noted this repeatedly on this forum. Instead, I try to reach a balance and look at the historical facts with impartiality.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on March 08, 2005 04:40 am

Thank you Denes.

I don't know any hungarians on this forum so please PM me their nicks

Oh boy, here we go... The gates of hell are opened...

You put the " ' " on "i", Mister Imperialist!




Iama

PS - so, finally a dedicated (from birth mommnet) topic to this... Let's prepare for the show.. Hey, were i can find some real good popcorns?

More serious - i wish to this topic 2 things:

1. - life (don't close it, yet)
2. - bun simt(z) - somebody translate this in hungarian lang., and in english, please.

Iama, forum guidelines are applicable in every topic.

Gentelmen, the situatin is very simple.
Romania doesn't have any territorial issue with Hungary, may be Hungary has with us. Transilvania is romanian land (see the Chronicles of Anonymus - Gesta Hungarorum- the notary of Bella the Hun).
The "hot issues" are now Bassarabia, Bucovina and Cadrilater.

Mr. Denes not your Hungarian ethnicity is the problem [Really I don't have anything with your Hungarian ethnicity] and with your "attitude" about Romania and anything related to Romania. ( the proof is that you started to talk about a number of hot issues rerlated to the historical Hungarian and Romanian feud.

This IS the problem because you are not impartial when it comes to the so called issues between Hungary and Romania. I kind of understand this because of your ethnicity.

FRATELLO: "Gentelmen, the situatin is very simple."


Well Fratello, is not so simple. It's not even far as simple as you say.

One could tell you: OK, who is this "Anonymus" guy, do we know him?

No, serious, even if this is A BIG ONE for Romanian side (like an autogoal of Hungarians, if you want ) I think it would be interesting for you to know the other part proofs.

And please, everyone's help is needed, so can't you post all what you know on that fragment from "Gesta Hungarorum"?

Don't be so "chary of words" (I found that in the dictionary, means: zgarcit la vorba )


Cheers,

Baebosu

Fratello: why Cadrilater? We talk here from Burebista's days, or from other leaders when our borders were ... in present Bulgarian teritory, or much closer? Please, give some explanations.

Denes: you have your part of sparks from the fire, when it is fire on this forum for hungarian-romanian "problem". So, assume (*?) your responsability. If you don't believe, please, re-read your posts. Even you was an romanian citizen, your posts about Romania is ... you are more like an emigrant from Hungary, not from Romania! So, why do you expect according to your posts (on this subjects)? It's a problem of "attitude" like our co-forumist Fratello says...

Anyway, PEACE! I want to read good posts, not flaks, flames, etc. I think my post don't was take like an flak, or something like a personal attack to nobody from the 2 forumists.


Iama

Unfortunately, this forum lacks an objective poster from the Hungarian side. Denes seems to consider every Romanian history book as "communist propaganda" or nationalistically biased. For him, the only true history is the Hungarian one.
In another thread i wrote about a Hungarian massacre commited against Romanian civilians in the village of Treznea, after talking to all survivors, Romanians and Hungarians alike. For Denes, these tesimonies had no importance, as a book written by a Hungarian told a different (and ridiculous) version of this story.
Maybe we can find another Hungarian ethnic, less biased, who would be useful in discussing these issues.

And it is A BIG ONE for Hungarians to! The only problem is -> it can be a nice talk thing, with solid and credible sources, or even Dragos says this topic is like all others under the forum guidelines and rules umbrella.. we see something bad here, and just another closed topic?

Thanks Barbosu for "chary of words"!

Iama