Stalinist and Nazi policies, Who is the worst?

the Army of " farmers" who thought the Nazzies and the pupped on a string axis forces a lesson that they still remember today.



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Alexkdl, take it easy with the CCCP-style propaganda messages. Before being so drastic with the “puppet states agression war" against the "champion of peace" USSR you should read a little bit more about Poland invasion in 1939, about the Winter War 1939-1940 and about the ultimatum to Romania from June 1940. Do not neglect the paragraphs about the occupation of Bucovina and Herta regions (Bucovina is a northern Romanian province which never belonged to Russia, and Herta was not even claimed in the ultimatum, the soviets just “took” it by force).
I think that there are solid arguments that if there were not for the moronic and criminal German policies lines towards Ukraine after its occupation (due to the Nazi doctrine prescriptions about the inferiority of Slavic peoples), the country could have become a reliable allied to the Axis bloc.

And about the “great patriotic war for the defense of the homeland” maybe you should look for some written (and oral) history accounts about the average Soviet army soldier treatment reserved to the Romanian (allied) civilian population after August 1944 (especially women). I assure you that this part of the "lesson" is still well remembered. And if you think to reply with the overused “making justice” or “getting even” arguments remember that Uncle Joe Stalin’s USSR wasn’t at all innocent after signing the Ribentrop-Molotov Pact which allow Germany to began its Western campaign in 1940.

My point is that the fascists weren’t AT ALL better than the commis, but certainly not worse - and making this comparison I’m referring to the imperialist, aggressive and murderous state which was the USSR during the Stalin era.

This post has been edited by Agarici on April 08, 2005 03:52 pm

I am not making any propaganda for Stalin and the communists at all neither I like commies I also red adequately about Stalinist German alliance during early WWII and Communists staff after WWII....but did you ask yourself what has caused Eastern Europe to become occupied dominated by communits ? Hungary didnt even want to capitulate at wars end .......and Germans were killing people until the very last day of war.......so consider yourself fortunate that the Russians didn't do more to your nation as you guys did to them in Crimea , Basarabia , Stalingrad etc ...given the views fascist Rumania had in WWII....

Also you, who tell other people to go and read history, how can you possibly compare the atrocities of the Nazzies, Croats, Hungarians ,Italians and Japanese who started a war which ended 50 million people getting killed with the communist system ?

Did the communist ever sent 6 million women, kids and elderly jews to gas chambers just because they were jews and had dead angels like the dumn Nazzies ? Did the commies ever commited such mass murder and ethnic clansing as the Germans and Axis commited, are attempting for a moment to compare Hitler,Goebels, Himmler,Klatenbrunner, Eichmann , Engelle,SS,SD ,Gestapo etc with commies ?

Did the commies decapitated and executed POW's as the Japs and Nazzies did ? ....were the POW's treated as they were treated by the Nazzies and Japs......so please dont give me again this weird comparison tables.....and keep in mind that the unjustice brought by commies upon Rumania was brought by the Rumanians themselves for having silly dreams in beating a huge nation like Russia and for thinking they may be blue blooded too......and eventually end the war as winners on the German side.

Finally ,if I was in WWII, I would have joined the Allied or even the Russians you dislike so much without one hesitation and allowed myself to act like they acted in paying back the nations who killed their familes as I was entering the states who joined the Nazzies .....If the Rumania prior WWII would have had a stable inner political climate they wouldnt have joined the Nazzies or at least fought them and Rumania may have ended in a smilar status like Yugoslavia ended up after WWII

If I were Churchill I would have nuked in first place the Germany ( these plans existed) in parallel to Japan without one second of regrets, which btw I think they fully deserved it at that time .....and you as Rumanian citizen if you have any nostalgic dreams about the Nazzies or Germans who for sure you dont live with them nor have one dumn idea about their mentality .......keep this CRAP for yourself or do something about it on your own time rather attempt jumping to conclussions regarding my hostorical knowledge and compare commies to Nazzies ......so take it easy with your stuff and get back to books and next time be sure you know what you talking about , period !


PS: Btw if you and your other friends on here are sympathetic to Germans.....Joshka Fischer issues easy immigrant Visas...try to get one ..it may accomplish all your fantasies about the Germans ...in the worst case move the the German speaking part of Rumania,you will certainly love their mentality......and by no means compare the ping-pong historical Basarabian disputes between Rumania and Russia with Rumania going to Stalingrad , Crimea etc and become a 100% fascist nation.......btw , if Moldavian Rep is part of Rumania ...why wouldnt they now join the Rumania of today and become together one nation ? are there commies left in Khishinau or do they fear of new Antonescus ?

This post has been edited by alexkdl on April 08, 2005 10:14 am

Well my friend, your vehement answer proves historical ignorance, a total lack of perspective and a lack of any clues about how a civil discussion should be like. But I guess your deepest regret is that you were not contemporary with your beloved Uncle Joe Stalin. However, if you live in the ex-USSR and the bullshit you’re “sharing” with us (I should have said “throw in our face”) is all that you have understood about the communism you have lived pretty much in vain from your social knowledge and understanding point of view.

And a few words about (the same) Uncle Joe Stalin’s achievements (few of them), totaling according to some sources over 6 millions deaths:
- the forced “collectivization” of agriculture, with the result of killing many millions “culacs”
- the extermination of “tatar” population under the accusation/suspicion of plotting against the leader
- the purge of the army
- the purge of the Communist Party of deviationists, internationalists, Zionists (for you: these were the supporters of an international Jewish movement and a Jewish state) – also for you this meant killing Zinoviev, Kamenev, Kirov, Trotski and hundred thousands others less visible
- the many random murders, having as reason the suspicion (I emphasize, SUSPICION) that the people failed to follow the party lines

You should really do yourself a favor and take a look on at least one decent book about totalitarianism. Apart for the many statistics available, for a more analytical perspective I’m suggesting you to try to read “The origins of totalitarianism”, a classic wrote by a German refugee in the US (Jewish origin) philosopher Hannah Arendt.

And also for your knowledge, the abuses/atrocities committed by the Russian soldiers in Romania were done inside an ALLIED country (the armistice had been accepted by the Soviet leadership) and against the CIVILIAN POPULATION, in case that this matters for you. As for the treatment reserved by the soviets to the Axis POW… I don’t know what was more painful for the captives (and degrading for the captors), to have their hads chopped down by the Japanese or their skulls break down with a hammer (if they were Waffen SS) by the Soviets. You’d better not have mentioned this subject, since there are so many published (and available) memoirs of the ones (few) who survived the Soviet captivity. Bad luck for you, I guess…

This post has been edited by Agarici on April 08, 2005 11:20 am

By the way, administrators, shouldn’t praising a totalitarian ideology and instigating to violence being banned on this site?

Quote Alexdl:
”Finally ,if I was in WWII, I would have joined the Allied or even the Russians you dislike so much without one hesitation and allowed myself to act like they acted in paying back the nations who killed their familes as I was entering the states who joined the Nazzies .....
If I were Churchill I would have nuked in first place the Germany ( these plans existed) in parallel to Japan without one second of regrets, which btw I think they fully deserved it at that time”

I think the most reasonable opinions on these totalitarian regimes are based on:
a) direct experience or experience of relatives regarding one of these regimes, as victims
b) study of various historical works

For the first case (a), there are nations or social groups that suffered most or only because of one of the two regimes. In this case, it would be reasonable for the victim to pay respect for the other victims' point of view too, because otherwise we will have a never ending spin of hateful remarks. Therefor I urge for rationality in remarks, rather than emotionally driven statements.

For case (b) I urge for better study and not just superficial statements. I will refer to the statement of Alex "......and by no means compare the ping-pong historical Basarabian disputes between Rumania and Russia" and I will come back later with some historiographic excerpts on the roots of this "ping-pong".

I dont have a clue on who u are and on why the heck would u consider to bother me with your fascist views .

Though is your and not mine bad luck as I wont stup at your level nor I consider your historical bla bla as historical background worth discussing on here ...all you do is venting your frustration about your social state of today...wanting to vision the history so in order to match your social and political state of mind which is way out of line ...so please give me a break and refferain in bothering me with your fasciust visions, as they aren't worth a thing to me .......last and not least .....consider yourself happy that the Russians didnt mess up with your family as your country had no business in Russia nor elsewhere in WWII and continue to persue rethorics crap with your other friends on here who may wana share your views and type of unsoliciated messages u sending.

PS: By no means I have anything to do with commies nor with the crap you vent
on here which is definetly not history but solely your personal frustration by
lacking a Western type life style which of course it brings you to the
nostalgies of the past as the sole way to escape your political and social reality.

Dragos

When you will revert back with the Basrabian issue , please drop me aword on why the Moldovian Republic of today would want to be a part of Rumania nowadays....I went through Rumanian , German and Soviet books on all what I stated previously and the guy who posted the stuff has sent me an unsolicited message telling me to cease making communist propaganda, which is not by no means is his beer nor I would care to bother with his crap

Alex

I am amazed how mr. alexkdl desperately wants to call people fascist.
Maybe thats why he comes up with this kind of topics (stalinist and nazi policies. which is worst ????).
OK, maybe that wouldnt be a tragedy, but then he starts the topic by posting a Soviet war propaganda poster and praising how the russians pupped the axis forces on a string.

I thought it was going to be about the policies, and the first thing we see is a war poster.


Also, the first person who tried to say something else was politely invited to keep its CRAP for istelf, along with other "fascists" in Romania...

So whats left of the "debate" and the topic? Obviously no debate. The topic starts as it was supposed to end -- "the country with the best policies won the war and taught a lesson remembered even today".

So the question persist. If the topic was born with a clear conclusion, why did you open it, mr. alexkdl? Just to call other people fascists?

take care

The topic was opened by dragos, who moved an off-topic discussion from a thread in the Collector's Corner.

I expect everyone to drop the aggressivity and name calling in this topic, because things aren't looking good at all.

Well... Victor, about taking it easy, I'm still waiting for Alexkdl to be banned for his last "reply” to the arguments I used, while i was also trying hard to keep a polite tone in my answer. As for “me and my fascist friends” I don’t know about them but in what I’m concern I could surely “outmaneuver” Alexkdl in calling names with my knowledge in argotic English, but I see no point in doing that. Instead, as a believer in the representative democracy I am I expect the administrators to kick him out fast at least for a while…

About the fact that I have bothered him with unsolicited messages, well… I DID NOT send him any private message. And in what concerns my replies from the forum to what he asserted, at this point I'm asking if he does not realize that a forum is nobody’s property (or at most it might be if the person is the forum owner, administrator, which Alexkdl is not). The opinions expressed on a forum are there for being shared with others and for getting a feed-back, not in order to allow people like Alexkdl to write down what the voices inside their heads whisper them… And if he's not capable to sustain his views with arguments and facts, he should better give us all a break... for good.

[edited by admin]

Mr Imperialist,

I am amazed too about your nickname and the arbitrary role u play on here which by the way was unsolicited too....nor needed !

I suggest you to buy a pair of spectacles just in case u cant read properly....either way you will note that posting posters on here, what I think and write about it is my own business, those who dont like dont have to write me unsolicited messages.........to make a long story short , read again his first post on which he states provocatively I am making commies propaganda......which of course by no means I am not a commie nor I am what your nickname stands for .....but even if I would, that would be my beer ...... I dont approach those who posting topics about Rumanian SS or stamping NATO and US as any better than " Shalom Bin Laden "..plus , plus

So please mind your own business !

This post has been edited by alexkdl on April 08, 2005 03:56 pm

Me thinks Freud came back from the dead to assist us in the forum...

Agarici

Horia Agarici was a brave pilot and you are far from his title , all you do is provoke and create incitement and dont mind your own store ! You talk a lot of things you barely know and understand and portrey yourself as someone you defintely are NOT !

Your expressions you used are self defeating and they aren't worth answering them...I simply feel sorry for you and the state of mind of yours .

You attitude stinks and u are a loss to anyone on here who would discuss history and talking about getting kicked out of this forum I suggest you watch out that this won't happen to you soon ,....I certainly think that you should pay attention to your own provocative stataments with which you have approached me because probably u didnt have anything better to do but provoke ....personally , I won't further reply your sickening messages nor get engaged with those who support you views or those who support your attitude.

Good luck in bothering the others, and give me a break now !

This post has been edited by alexkdl on April 08, 2005 03:52 pm

Maybe you didn’t notice, Alexkdl, but I was not addressing you in my last post (nor the voices inside your had ). I was referring to you using the third person (aka he, for your understanding) and I was asking a few rhetorical questions (and it would take me too long to explain to you what these are). But I still hope that you will allow me to address other people on this forum, or the administrators… Please…?

Now about Horia Agarici, sure he was a brave man. But I choose his name because in my opinion he was mostly an anti-hero, he was modest, humane and he kept his personal stuff in a pillow case . Anyway, I don’t think that the nickname I use on this forum is any of your business (at least as long it is not offensive to you), nor “my fascists friends”, nor “the people who support me” (?!?). But it was not the same case with you irresponsable statements. Does the voices threaten you ? Remain focused on your commies…

I hope I could sometime translate and post the episode when he downed the three Soviet bombers near Constanta, in 1941, told by the squadron radio operator…