Romanian Military History Forum - Part of Romanian Army in the Second World War Website



Pages: (3) 1 [2] 3   ( Go to first unread post ) Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Smaranda Brăescu
Cantacuzino
Posted: April 19, 2005 12:12 pm
Quote Post


Host
Group Icon

Group: Hosts
Posts: 2328
Member No.: 144
Joined: November 17, 2003



QUOTE
Dan, could you please give us more details about the book by Maria Trandafir you mentioned, like for instance the year of publication, publishing house, etc? Thanks in advance.

Ruy


Yes Ruy, i could scan for you the book( it is small one). It was published in limited number under romanian " ARPIA" association. Sent me on PM your e-mail adress if you need the scan.

Dan.
PM
Top
Ruy Aballe
Posted: April 19, 2005 12:48 pm
Quote Post


Plutonier major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 307
Member No.: 247
Joined: March 18, 2004



Dan, thanks for your kind offer. Please check your PM booth - sometimes, I think I must contract the services of a librarian to put some order in my messy library...

Ruy
PM
Top
Ruy Aballe
Posted: April 19, 2005 02:55 pm
Quote Post


Plutonier major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 307
Member No.: 247
Joined: March 18, 2004



To Dénes, still on Miss Brăescu's Hawk: I examined what I have about the Miles Hawk series and it makes sense that YR-ADB may have been a M.2H two-seater, because only 3 Hawk Speed Six were actually built. The photos showing the lady and her mechanic in front of one of those rare machines give no proof whatsoever that the aircraft actually purchased was a single-seat Speed Six after all. She probably flew one in England, but that's another story. By the way, it seems that the correct designation of the Speed Six is M.2L. The sole surviving Hawk Speed Six (not bad, for a serial production of only three machines!) is G-ADGP, preserved in the U.K -
http://www.highwaygold.net/hqimages/hqphot...06/DSCN1829.jpg

Here's a photo of G-ACTE, before being sold to the Republicans:
http://www.miles-aircraft.com/M.2_hawk_speed_six.html

Let's try to disclose what happened to the third one built...

Ruy
PM
Top
Dénes
Posted: April 19, 2005 03:31 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



QUOTE (Ruy Aballe @ Apr 19 2005, 08:55 PM)
(...)only 3 Hawk Speed Six were actually built. (...)
Let's try to disclose what happened to the third one built...

It appears that the story of all three Speed hawks is known and none of them ended up in Rumania:
QUOTE
Hawk Speed Six M. 2E 43 G-ACTE Untraced Abroad 1937 Known History: The CoA was issued on the 5 July 1934 for Sir Charles Rose, Portsmouth. To W. Humble, Sherburn-in-Elmet in September 1935. Sold abroad during September 1937.

Hawk Speed Six M. 2L 160 G-ADGP Airworthy Fairoaks England 2000 Known History: It was registered on the 20 May 1935. On 13 June 1935 the CoA was issued to Luis Fontes, Woodley. During August 1946 to Miles Aircraft Ltd., Woodley. In February 1948 to R.R. Paine, Wolverhampton. To W.H. Todd, Wolverhampton in October 1965. To Mrs. L.A. Osborne, Stapleford in July 1967. To D.A. Hood, Booker in February 1971. Was noted at Old Warden during 1979. To Roger Reeves, Old Warden in October 1982, then Barton ?. (Sold to Roger Reeves by Mike Stow). In June 1996 was airworthy at Old Warden. At some time was ex - Hamble, Florida, Old Warden. On loan from T. Buffaloe. Airworthy based at Old Warden in the summer of 1999, but crating imminent prior to freighting to the USA for Tom Buffaloe. In 1999, a UK buyer was found and the aircraft will be staying in this country for the foreseeable future, the aircraft was almost at the point of being shipped from the docks at the time of the deal. As of June 1999, the new owner is Roger Mills. The aircraft is currently based at Booker, but will be moving to Fairoaks in the very near future. Great news to learn it will be remaining in this country. 

Hawk Speed Six M. 2U 195 G-ADOD Crashed Rhodesia 1936 Known History: The CoA was issued on the 27 August 1935 to Miss Ruth Fontes, Woodley. To A.E. Clouston, Woodley in August 1936. Crashed on the 1 October 1936 at Gwelo in Southern Rhodesia.

Source: http://members.aol.com/warwicaero/milesair...ft/m02afhis.htm

The same source gives the version of the 10 Miles Hawks exported to Rumania, which were in ARR service, as M.2Y.

The research apparently goes on...

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 19, 2005 03:32 pm
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Dénes
Posted: April 19, 2005 03:35 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



And here is the solution (from the same source):

"Hawk Major M. 2H 150 YR-ADB Untraced No Known History"

After all, it appears I was right. wink.gif

Gen. Dénes
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Ruy Aballe
Posted: April 19, 2005 03:45 pm
Quote Post


Plutonier major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 307
Member No.: 247
Joined: March 18, 2004



Thanks for clarifying the issue, Dénes. Now that we know the ultimate fate of G-ADOD, we can also assume that the aircraft in the photos from Mr. Bujor's collection may have been flown by Miss Brăescu in England, but not purchased.

Surprinsingly enough, the Spanish "after-life" of G-ACTE is unknown to the author of the text you posted, which is indeed strange, especially if one opens the "illustrations" section in the M.2 Hawk page - the drawings of both the M.2H and the Hawk Speed Six are the ones drawn by Mr. Miranda's for his book (and used without any indication of that!). The book provides details on the fate of G-ACTE in Spain.
"Abroad" is too vague...

Ruy
PM
Top
Ruy Aballe
Posted: April 19, 2005 03:51 pm
Quote Post


Plutonier major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 307
Member No.: 247
Joined: March 18, 2004



QUOTE (Dénes @ Apr 19 2005, 03:35 PM)
And here is the solution (from the same source):
"Hawk Major M. 2H 150 YR-ADB Untraced No Known History"
After all, it appears I was right. wink.gif

Yes, but please notice that on a second thought, I concluded that the possibilities of YR-ADB being a M.2H two-seater were much bigger, because only three Speed Six were built... smile.gif
PM
Top
Dénes
Posted: April 19, 2005 03:57 pm
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



QUOTE (Ruy Aballe @ Apr 19 2005, 09:45 PM)
we can also assume that the aircraft in the photos from Mr. Bujor's collection may have been flown by Miss Brăescu in England, but not purchased.

Well, from the photos I've seen, YR-ADB was a one-seater and looked pretty much like the airplane seen on the above photo (painted in blue, yellow and red).
I have to double check the photos when I'll be at home.

I would say that the original two-seat configuration was changed to a one-seat configuration, probably at Miss Braescu's request.

See below a dwg. of the M.2H, taken from the same site:
user posted image
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Ruy Aballe
Posted: April 19, 2005 04:23 pm
Quote Post


Plutonier major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 307
Member No.: 247
Joined: March 18, 2004



Yes, that's one of Señor Miranda's drawings... showing the factory configuration of the M.2H. I have that book.
Please check the photos of YR-ADB, because if it was really a one-seater converted from a stock two-seater, the engine cowling must be identical to that of any normal M.2H (it enclosed a four-cylinder, 130 hp Gipsy Major engine, instead of the six cylinder 200 hp Gipsy Six). The exhaust arrangement is also different: the standard version used a single tube contraption, while the Speed Six used a four stack type.

Ruy
PM
Top
Ruy Aballe
Posted: April 19, 2005 04:51 pm
Quote Post


Plutonier major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 307
Member No.: 247
Joined: March 18, 2004



QUOTE (Dénes @ Apr 19 2005, 03:57 PM)
Well, from the photos I've seen, YR-ADB was a one-seater and looked pretty much like the airplane seen on the above photo (painted in blue, yellow and red).

I would say that the original two-seat configuration was changed to a one-seat configuration, probably at Miss Braescu's request.

In what pertains to the photos above, well, the aircraft has some non-standard features: in first place, and if it is a modified M.2H two-seater, the conversion might well have included a change to a more powerful Gipsy Six engine - please notice the four stack exhaust arrangement.
On the other hand, the aircraft has - albeit faintly visible, it is there - an inspection panel in the fuselage, just aft the canopy. This was a feature of the two-seaters, absent in the Speed Six (at least in the photos I know of G-ACTE and G-ADGP). It seems to me that the aircraft was a true hybrid, converted from a stock M.2H airframe.

Ruy

This post has been edited by Ruy Aballe on April 19, 2005 04:53 pm
PM
Top
Dénes
Posted: April 20, 2005 12:16 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



Below is a superb view of Miss Braescu's Hawk, courtesy of R. Bujor's coll., with its owner dressed in traditional (popular) dress.

user posted image

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 20, 2005 12:21 am
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Dénes
Posted: April 20, 2005 12:24 am
Quote Post


Admin
Group Icon

Group: Admin
Posts: 4368
Member No.: 4
Joined: June 17, 2003



Another view of the same airplane, also courtesy of R. Bujor's coll., this time exhibited in the main square of Tg.Mures/Marosvásárhely - this poster's birthplace. cool.gif

Gen. Dénes

user posted image
PMEmail PosterUsers Website
Top
Ruy Aballe
Posted: April 20, 2005 09:23 am
Quote Post


Plutonier major
*

Group: Members
Posts: 307
Member No.: 247
Joined: March 18, 2004



Thanks for posting such beautiful photos, Dénes (and thanks also to Mr. Bujor). The photos confirm my theory (at a first glance): YR-ADB was indeed a hybrid. The first photo shows the standard, less pointed rudder common on the two-seaters. As for the engine cowling, now we can see that the lateral panels were slightly bulged, another hint pointing towards the instalation of a 200hp Gipsy Six engine, besides from the four-stack exhaust.

Ruy
PM
Top
Cantacuzino
Posted: April 20, 2005 01:24 pm
Quote Post


Host
Group Icon

Group: Hosts
Posts: 2328
Member No.: 144
Joined: November 17, 2003



I wonder what color could be this YR-ADB Miles Hawk. It looks like blue fuselage with red letter marks and red wing tips (on both upper and under surface) and yelow the wing center ( romanian national marks).

Dan.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on April 20, 2005 03:08 pm
PM
Top
Cantacuzino
Posted: April 20, 2005 02:28 pm
Quote Post


Host
Group Icon

Group: Hosts
Posts: 2328
Member No.: 144
Joined: November 17, 2003



QUOTE
The same source gives the version of the 10 Miles Hawks exported to Rumania, which were in ARR service, as M.2Y.

The research apparently goes on...

Gen. Dénes


One of the Miles Hawk ( nr.7) in ARR service in Bassarabia '41-'42. It was also flown by Lt Greceanu. Courtesy Razvan Bujor.

user posted image
PM
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options Pages: (3) 1 [2] 3  Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 






[ Script Execution time: 0.0115 ]   [ 14 queries used ]   [ GZIP Enabled ]