Dresden Bombing. Holocaust?

Hi Indrid,

Curioso clearly has a much greater knowledge on Dresden than I do and has long since completely demolished what little case Chandernagore has.

This being so, one wonders what Chandernagore's motives are in continuing this discussion?

I hope he is not one of those revisionists one runs into on other sites under other names whose aim is to equate the bombing of Dresden with the genocide of 6 million Jews. Their target is to try to pretend that the Western Allies were as bad as Nazi Germany and thereby politically rehabilitate the Nazi regime as normal, rather than an awful aberration.

Personally, I think there is a respectable moral case to be made against the area bombing of Dresden. However, it must take into account the facts, not invent or ignore them.

Cheers,

Sid.

i do not agrre with moral. i agreee with the political decision. this however does not mean it was not a massacre. but, it was a political measure, as was Hiroshima and Nagasaki. morality and military action do not mix, except the case of a duel between two gentlemen.

but, as you probably know, there was nothing gentleman-like in the two world wars. perhaps there were personal episodes, but nothing large-scale

Hi Indrid,

In what way was the bombing of Dresden a political measure?

It was certainly at least partly done at Soviet request, but this request was based on the plausible military reasoning that Dresden was a vital communications hub immediately behind the German front line opposite the Red Army. Indeed, at the time it was bombed, Dresden was already within the German Army's zone of operations and the civil authorities were subordinate to it.

Cheers,

Sid.

it was a political measure because it was not a military necessity. to break the will of the oponent in war one can use brutality as he sees fit. check out Clausewitz for confirmation. that is what i meant.

Hi Indrid,

Surely, by that measure, as no individual military action is ever an absolute military necessity in its own right, all is political?

It is the cumulative effect of multiple, but not of themselves individually decisive, acts that wins all wars. The bombs dropped on Dresden might very probably have caused more damage to the German war effort elsewhere, but the fact remains that they still caused damage to Germany's war effort and therefore added to the cumulative pressure that brought about Germany's final capitulation three months later.

Cheers,

Sid.

well that is what i was saying. why are we arguing, again/?

Hi Indrid,

Arguing? Not us. We are discussing.

So, in essence, you would agree that there was a military justification for bombing Dresden, but that the bombs could have been more effectively used elsewhere?

Cheers,

Sid.

yes, i agree with the military justification of the bombing.

but from a moral point of view i cannot pronounce myself, since i am not convinced morality and military action truly mix.

Hi Indrid,

I tend to agree. War iinvolves the suspension of several normal moral principles, most notably "Thou shalt not kill".

The killing of 25,000-40,000 civilians at Dresden is very troubling. But it was done within the existing laws of war of the time. A moral international community would have introduced laws specifically banning such bombing. Did it? Yes! Today, thank God, area bombing of the type carried out at Dresden would be criminal. But it wasn't then.

Cheers,

Sid.

i would rise the number of dead civilians a bit....

Hi Indrid,

On what evidence? The Germans recovered and buried 25,000 bodies after the raid. From numerous earlier air raids they knew the likely proportion of missing to dead. This added about 15,000 more. The likely total of dead and missing is therefore in the region of 40,000.

It should be noted that this methodology, used by the Germans themselves at the time, includes refugees.

Cheers,

Sid.

I hate to bring you back to reality Sid, but you seem to be the only one looking for a continuation of the debate here.

I hope you don't mind if I intervene to prevent some additional character assasination from your part.

Therefore I would like to precise that :

1 - I'm not intersted in promoting racial hatred of America, denying the holocaust and gas chambers, joining the Ku Klux Clan or raping old women.

2 - As curious as it may seem to you I'm only interested in getting a balanced view over a regretable war time event.

So I'm asking you to stop the perfidious insinuations bordering on personal attacks. Thank you.

well i have heard figures going as far as half a million....

Hi Chandernagore,

I was hoping for a denial. That is why I wrote that I hoped you were NOT one of those who is trying to suggest that the Western Allied bombing of Dresden was the equivalent to the Nazi murder of 6 million Jews.

In the interests of accuracy, I would point out that I have never, at any point, here or anywhere else, written, suggested or otherwise hinted that you were "interested in promoting racial hatred of America, denying the holocaust or gas chambers, joining the Klu Klux Klan or raping old women". I believe none of these things to be true.

Also in the interests of accuracy, and because you did not actually address this issue in your last post, are you, or are you not trying to suggest that the Western Allied bombing of Dresden was the equivalent to the Nazi murder of 6 million Jews? As I wrote originally, I hope not, but only you can make this explicit, and you have not yet done so.

Cheers,

Sid.

Sid,

In the interest of historical accuracy, I hereby officially and authoritatively claim that I'm "not trying to suggest that the Western Allied bombing of Dresden was the equivalent to the Nazi murder of 6 million Jews".

Which is of course a completely ridiculous and slanderous accusation.


Sid,

I think that maybe you could be gay. In the interest of historical accuracy can you give us a consolidated denial ?