Transport Capacity

I need to find out about troops and material transportation, example:

- a train could cary A tons of materials, B number of vehicles/tanks, C number of troops

Any ideea on this ?

It would all depend on the size of the train, for example, how many freight cars and how many tank cars ?

well I actually have no ideea - that is why I ask - was there a standard. a usual way to deal with sucj transports or each of them was unique ?

I think a better question is: what is the capacity of different types of train wagons (*?)?

Iama

Yes, good point Iama - thanks.

I forgot were, but at a momment i read something about russia's wagons - how many horses, or mans, or pows can embark. But i don't know if it is like ours, because is possible to russians to have bigger ones - they have different "encartament". Maybe they had bigger train wagons. Il qeep in mind that, and maybe i find again that source.

Iama

Iama I need thisfor eastern front operations - german, russians,romanians... I need some examples so I may have soomething to compare with.It would begreat if you can find that link again.

I have found some info on trains. The trains transporting ammunition and fuel had about 32-35 wagons each. For example, 10 trains of 32 wagons each, transported 163,570 litres of petroleum, 334,710 litres of diesel fuel and 10,000 litres oil.

A good staff officer should be able to tell you this. I had a "Combat Service Support Guide" that had tables which listed how many aircraft sorties to move different types of units, how many tons of supplies you could expect different units to use in different types of operations, how many rounds different tanks or artillery pieces consumed in a day... that sort of thing.

Of course it was all written from the perspective of US Army units of the 1970s and 80s.

It is possible to calculate it:

1. For vehicles your main limitation will be length. A normal flatcar from that time is about 15m, so take the lengths of your vehicles and do the math. You don't see more than one modern tank on a flatcar, but for WW2 tanks you could carry two.

2. A bulk cargo car (coal for example) carried 50 to 70 tons in the 1930s (see http://www.cohs.org/history/freight.htm for an example). Packaged supplies take more space, and you have the weight of the packaging. This could easily drop it by 50% or more.

3. For troops, it just depends on how tight you want to pack them in The US Army (again, in the 1980s) used semi-trailers that could carry 80 equipped troops standing for short distances (around training areas for example). Over any distance, using cattle cars (or even flat cars in summer), you could probably figure on 40 soldiers/car with their personal equipment.

4. For the capacity of whole trains, my recommendation is just develop an average length of train (20 cars maybe?) and use it as a standard. If you figure 20 cars/train, 1 or 2 trains could move the personnel of a battalion.

Good luck, and I hope you get a response from someone who knows more about this topic than me.

Jeff

Dragos and Jeff - thank you a lot, this is really helpful !

I just realized something else - now I need to find out how much supplies a division would need when advancing/fightin (infantry, motorized, armoured, cavalery, artilery).The more I find out the more I realize I know nothing

This post has been edited by D13-th_Mytzu on April 20, 2005 07:51 pm

You're very welcome. May I ask why you asked the question? I thought you might be designing a game, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

A WW2 version of that Combat Service Support Guide is what you need. As I remember it, the consumption of supplies varied greatly depending on the type of operations:

-- Offensive (first day)
-- Offensive (following days)
-- Defensive (first day)
-- Defensive (following days)
-- Mobile operations in contact (some fighting, but not too much)
-- Defense in sector not under attack
-- Rest/refit (not in contact)

Some principles:
-- For the units in contact, artillery ammunition is the largest source of supply usage by weight. The heavier rounds more than compensate for the lower number of rounds used (compared to small arms ammunition). AT guns do not use lots of ammo, because they don't live long. (The Soviets estimated that their AT guns at Kursk knocked out 0,7 tanks before being destroyed).
-- For motorized and armored units fuel consumption is also very high in active operations (both offensive and defensive). Figure 1-2 full fuel tanks for the combat vehicles and probably the same for trucks and support vehicles.
-- There is a HUGE difference between supply consumption on the offensive (and active defensive) and normal operations in a quiet sector. An artillery battery might fire 10, 20 or more fire missions a day supporting an offensive, compared to 1 or 2 (or even 0) in a quiet sector. Multiply that times 5 rounds/mission/gun (for example) and it adds up fast.
-- Food, water, and resupply of personal equipment (clothing, tents, and so on) is a constant steady load and does not change much according to the type of operations.
-- When most of your supplies move by rail, the distance from your rail depot greatly affects your supply calculations. Remember, trucks use fuel going back to the rail depot, too, even if they are empty. Beyond 50km and horse drawn wagons become unrealistic even with good roads. (This is hard to factor in, I know -- you just have to make an estimate and go with it).
-- It's difficult to factor in, but think about fortification materials for units on the defensive. Mines and barbed wire are heavy, and concrete and lumber are even heavier.
-- It is amazing how few supplies foot-mobile infantry and cavalry use when not in combat.
-- Water-borne transport is great for moving supplies when you have it. A ship or a line of barges can carry as much or more than a train. (Yeah, I know -- not much help in Russia)

You are about right I am designing a virtual war for IL2 series, it will be heavily based on the ground war so that is why I need such infos.Your analize seems very good and I would like to use some of it in the Virtual War engine

I'm flattered. Let me know if you need any more of my rantings, or any real detail. I will see what I can do. I do have a friend who was a transport officer in Desert Storm and several other places. She would have some of the references I am thinking of.

Jeff

"The battalion, with an effective of 36 officers, 1292 troops, 502 horses and 97 waggons [carts], embarked in three trains."

Source: http://www.worldwar2.ro/memorii/?article=104

Thank you very much Dragos, very good info and a great article !