The death of Cpt. av. Alexandru Serbănescu

18 august’44, 10,25hour 1Lt.Norman C. Skogstad with P-51 “ Thor II ” shot down 2 Bf-109 at 25Km west Ploesti. Source 31FG website

449 BG, SPECIAL NARRATIVE REPORT NO. 116
MISSION: 18 August 1944 - DACIA ROMANO

CHRONOLOGY
28 B-24's took off at 0609 to 0638 hours to bomb DACIA ROMANIA Oil refinery at PLOESTI, Rumania. 4 returned early. 23 a/c were over the target at 0954 hours, 20 of which dropped 35.75 tons 500 lb (.1 and .025 fusing) RDX bombs on target from 23,500 to 24,500 feet. 2 returned 4 tons to base; 1 jettisoned 2 tons. 4 of the a/c that partially bombed jettisoned 2.75 tons. Of the 4 early returns, 2 returned 2 tons to base and 2 jettisoned 2 tons. 1 a/c bombed a railroad siding as a target of opportunity at 4309N - 2236E. 1 a/c crashed upon landing, killing 6 crew members and critically injuring 4. 1 is missiing. 2 at friendly fields, returned to base at 1615 hours. 21 effective sorties were flown.

ROUTE AND ASSAULT
Rendezvoused on MANDURIA - SAN VITO line at 0721 hours at 8,000 feet. The route then passed over ULCINJE at 12,000 feet; to SVODE, POINA and COTOFENI. The KP, DRAGASANI (4440N - 2417E) was reached at 0930 hours at 24,000 feet. The IP, BALENII (4449N - 2538E) was reached at 0949 hours at 24,000 feet. The run was made on an axis of 70 degrees true. The rally was right and the formation passed over Lake SNAGOV (4443N - 2604E), to FERDINAND (4325N - 2312E) to SVODE. Thence a reciprocal course to base. 5 P-51's were sighted at DRAGASANI (4440N - 2417E) at 0930 hours. The escort was evaluated as fair. No exact time of departure of escort was noted.
RESULTS
An effective smoke screen prevented observation f results. Only 1/10 cumulus was encountered over the target.
ENEMY RESISTANCE
Fighters: None

Flak: I-A-H for 7 to 8 minutes.

CONCLUSION
Total Losses: 1 crashed upon landing. 1 missing. Damage: 14 from flak. Casualties: 3 seriously wounded by flak. 3 slightly wounded by flak. 6 killed and 4 critically injured (crashed on landing) Victories: None

MACR 7680 B-24J-195-CO (Unknown) no. 65 Sn 44-41061 716 BS, 449BG Pilot McDowell 10 POW

B-24 (Unknown) no. 15 Sn 42-78604 719BS, 449BG Pilot Watson
6 KIA, 4 POW.

( Source 449 BG website)

98 BG Looses on 18 august '44

MACR 7952 Consolidated B-24J-200-CO Liberator Sn 44-41185 (98th BG, 415th BS) lost Aug 18, 1944, Rumania.

MACR 9719 8/18/1944 B-24 Sn 42-78398 98BG

97 BG bomber lost on 18 august '44

MACR 7970, 8/18/1944, B-17 “ Remember Me” Sn 44-6340, 97BG, 414BS, Pilot Lloyd, hit by flak over Ploesti and crashed Paramithia.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on April 28, 2005 05:30 pm

I didn't quote anything. Be more specific. I have many sources not only Goebel memories.

You must have taken the story of 1st Lt. Busley from a source. I wanted to know which one. 'Mustang Ace' by Goebel (sorry for the misspelling, I am working of memory here), could be one of them.

Gen. Dénes

Before attacking, the extra fuel tanks were always released (not only by Mustang pilots).

Gen. Dénes

Cantacuzino, the emoticon at the end of my sentence denotes it that it's only a joke.

You should have not deleted this emoticon when quoting my original text, because it changes the meaning. Just like deleting quotation marks, which can change the whole meaning of a certain sentence.

As for the details on the discussed air combat, I will repy tonight, when I'll be at home.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 28, 2005 05:52 pm

Ok. i will put my money on the first ecounter.

10:25, 20 miles N. of Ploesti at 27,000 feet, <-------

I still stick with my initial option, namely the 3rd encounter at 10:40, 15 miles East of Ploiesti.

Three airplanes were claimed by pilots of the 309th F.S.: two were confirmed and the third one probable. Either of the two confirmed kills could have been Serbanescu.

Gen. Dénes

According to the USAAF victory list No. 6, compiled by Dr. Frank Olynyk, there were no claims of victories achieved North of Ploiesti, only West and East, as follows:

3 x Bf 109 15 miles W of Ploesti (307th F.S.)
2 x Bf 109 conf'd and 1 x Bf 109 prob. 15 miles E of Ploesti (309th F.S.) <---------
4 x Bf 109 40 miles E of Ploesti (308th F.S.)

Total = 9+1 victories.

This result is confirmed by the war diary of the 31st F.G., although without the locations being given (I have copies made directly from the microfilm).

Gen. Dénes.

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 28, 2005 11:45 pm

Now let's see who were the victims:

ARR
------
Gr. 7 vân.: 2 x Bf 109G
Gr. 9 vân.: 2 + 1 x Bf 109G

Luftwaffe
-----------
JG 53: 4 x Bf 109G
JG 77: 1 x Bf 109G

Total: 9+1 losses.

So the USAAF claims were correct 100%.

In my opinion the victories were achieved as follows:

Gr. 7 vân.: 307th F.S. (15 miles W Ploiesti)
Gr. 9 vân.: 309th F.S. (15 miles E Ploiesti)
JG 53: 308th F.S. (40 miles E Ploiesti)
JG 77: 307th F.S. (15 miles W Ploiesti)

Of course, I assumed that the locations of the shot downs given by USAAF pilots are correct.

I rest my case...

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on April 28, 2005 11:48 pm

Ok Denes, you came closer and closer to my first option :

Serbanescu was shot down by one pilot of 309sq.

Denes, you mislead us with victories north of Ploesti because you forgot to mention the engagement location list it's not the same with victory location list. So you said you put the money for encounter not for the victory locations. 9FG had two encounters location( from your list) but only in the second one had suffered looses.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on April 29, 2005 01:23 pm

the first list given says "engagements", and not victories.

.

as for the location, I'd also bet on 15 miles E Ploiesti option.

/electric

The victories of 309sq on that day ( 18 aug.'44) were :


1. Lt.Beeman 1victory - Bf 109
2. Lt.Busley 1victory - Bf 109 <------
3. Lt Zettle 1 probably Bf109

I put my money on the second from this list.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on April 29, 2005 10:04 am

Yes, Electric you are right . The 9th FG first encounter ( engagement) with 309sq was in north of Ploesti ( nobody can deny this). Than the fight moved to the est or north-est of Ploesti because 9FG pilots ( Serbanescu,Darjan,Dobran) were diving back to the airfield at Buzau when they were bounced by 309sq Mustangs second time. Now it make sense.

Encounters ( engagements )

10:25, 20 miles N. of Ploesti at 27,000 feet, ----> Gr9Vt
10:25, 15 miles W. of Ploesti at 27,000 feet, -----> Gr7Vt & JG77
10:40, 15 miles E. of Ploesti at 28,000 feet, -----> Gr9Vt
10:45, 40 miles E. of Ploesti at 27,000 feet. -----> JG53

Victories claims locations ( Olnik list)

3 x Bf 109 15 miles W of Ploesti (307th F.S.) ----> 2 x Gr7Vt & 1 JG77
2 x Bf 109 conf'd and 1 x Bf 109 prob. 15 miles E of Ploesti (309th F.S.) ---------> 2 x Gr9vt
4 x Bf 109 40 miles E of Ploesti (308th F.S.) ----> 4x JG53



Speaking of exact locations of victories claimed by americans they are only aproximated in after combat reports. In the heat of the fight you don't have allways time to check the clock , the compass and the map.
Today some of us take that figures like were for sure.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on April 29, 2005 07:29 pm