Army Depots lost in N.Transilvania, 1940?

Where were the infantry and artillery regimental depots of 16th and 17th Infantry Divisions and 2nd Mixed Mountain Brigade in Transilvania before September 1940?

Were any other major formations affected by the evacuation of Northern Transilvania? A Frontier Guard (Graniceri) Regiment, perhaps?

Does anyone know which regimental depots had to be evacuated after the 2nd Vienna Award?

Many thanks,

Sid.

P.S. Similar information on 12th Infantry Division and whether any depots were lost in Southern Dobrogea would be most welcome.

The disposition of the units before losing the NW Transylvania were:

16th Infantry Division - Dej

• 16th Infantry Brigade - Satu Mare
  • 87th Infantry Regiment - Satu Mare
  • 81st Ingantry Regiment - Dej
  • 7th Frontier Guards Regiment - Carei
• 16th Artillery Brigade - Cluj
  • 31st Artillery Regiment - Cluj
  • 32nd Artillery Regiment - Satu Mare

17th Infantry Division - Oradea

• 17th Infantry Brigade - Oradea
  • 85th Infantry Regiment - Oradea
  • 86st Ingantry Regiment - Oradea
• 47th Infantry Brigade - Cluj
  • 83rd Infantry Regiment - Cluj
  • 18th Frontier Guards Regiment - Cluj
• 17th Artillery Brigade - Oradea
  • 33rd Artillery Regiment - Oradea
  • 34th Artillery Regiment - Oradea

Following the Vienna Diktat, the measures were:
The 16th, 17th, 20th Infantry Divisions and the 2nd mixed Mountain Brigade released the armament, the ammunition, the heavy gear and the horses in the railroad station nearest to the disbanding zones, in order to be transported by rail to the new garrisons, and the conscripts were released home. The big infantry units were moved south, to the new garrisons as following:
16th Infantry Division: Ramnicu Valcea - Slatina - Caracal
17th Infantry Division: Craiova - Calafat
20th Infantry Division: Ploesti - Campulung
Infantry Training Center of Sfantu Gheorghe at Fagaras
The Junior Officers Military School to Ploiesti

The units of the 4th Army Corps were moved as following:
7th Infantry Division: Leordeni - Pitesti
8th Infantry Division: Gaesti - Pitesti
14th Infantry Division: Golesti - Urziceni

Hi Dragos,

Thanks very much.

Cheers,

Sid.

Hi Dragos,

I have just marked the depots of 16th and 17th Infantry Divisions on a map of the territory lost to Hungary in September 1940. I notice that all their depots are in the far north-west above the Cluj-Napoca/Dej line where there was a large Romanian element in the population, but none are in the four Hungarian-majority counties (according to Romanian census records) in the south-east of the lost area.

Were there any divisional and regimental depots in these four Hungarian-majority counties in the south-east of the annexed area? If so, which were they and where were they deployed in September 1940?

I have also been looking at Volume II of "Armata Romana de la Ultimatum la Dictat anul 1940". On p.129 it gives a copy of an order dated 31 August 1940 in which 16th and 17th Infantry Divisions and 2nd Mountain Brigade appear to be instructed to do as you say and deposit their heavy weapons, etc., at the nearest railway stations and disband. However, on p.152 a second order appears to have been issued on 1 September annulling points 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7 of the earlier order and instead appears to instruct the three formations to fall back over the new border.

Over the next couple of days in early September the book records documents detailing at least 1,500 desertions from these formations before order is restored.

What actually happened? Were 16th and 17th Infantry Divisions disbanded in Northern Transilvania (as per the order of 31 August), or were they first withdrawn over the new border and only then disbanded (as per the order of 1 September)?

(Please bear in mind that I do not speak Romanian and am basing my translation on a good dictionary and my knowledge of French and Spanish, so I could be wrong)

Cheers,

Sid.

P.S,

Looking at the map, the following places look big enough to possibly hold regimental or battalion depots:

Beclean
Nasaud
Bistrita
Reghin
Targu Mures
Toplita
Gheorgeni
Sovata
Odorheiu Secuiesc
Cristuru Secuiesc
Miercure-Ciuc
Targu Secuiesc
Sfintu Gheorghe
Covasna

What units were based in them before the loss of Northern Transilvania in 1940?

Cheers,

Sid.

The informations I gave are from "Istoria infanteriei romane" 1985. Unfortunately there is no reference to the order issued on 1 September 1940.

According to the above mentioned source, at the 87th Infantry Regiment from the 16th Infantry Division, half of the effective left the unit, seeking refuge in the nearby woods, in order not to be forced to leave the land.

The 16th and 17th divisions were not disbanded right away. Their commands were disbanded during September 1940, as part of the army reorganization that took place after Ion Antonescu came to power.

Târgu Mureş - 82nd Infantry Regiment, 39th Artillery Regiment, 40th Artillery Regiment (20th Infantry Division)

Bistriţa - 1/84th Frontier Guards Regiment (20th ID)

Alba Iulia - 91st Infantry Regiment (20th ID)

Timisoara - 5th Vânători Regiment, 1st Artillery Regiment, 38th Artillery Regiment (1st ID)

Lugoj - 17th Infantry Division (1st ID), 42nd Artillery Regiment (19th ID)

Ineu - 4th Frontier guards Regiment (1st ID)

Arad - 93rd Infantry Regiment (1st ID)

Sibiu - 3/90 Frontier guards Regiment, 35th Artillery Regiment (18th ID)

Orăştie - 92nd Infantry Regiment (18th ID)

Târgu Jiu - 18th Infantry Regiment, 36th Artillery Regiment (18th ID)

Orşova - 94th Infantry Regiment (19th ID)

Turnu Severin - 95th Infantry Regiment, 37th Artillery Regiment (19th ID)

Caransebeş - 2/96 Frontier guards Regiment (19th ID)

Hi Dragos,

Many thanks.

I have added the Targu Mures and Bistrita depots of 20th Infantry Division to my map.

However, this still leaves the core Hungarian-populated area to the south-east of the Toplita-Sovata-Cristuru Secuiesc line unaccounted for.

Have you any other information on Romanian depots in this area before Vienna?

Also, where were 12th Infantry Division's depots? Was it disbanded because of population and territorial losses in Transilvania or Basarabia?

Cheers,

Sid.

12th Infantry Division was part of the 3rd Army Corps in Bessarabia.
3rd Vânători Regiment - Bolgrad
28th Dorobanţi Regiment - Tarutino
35th Infantry Regiment - Cetatea Albă
22nd Artillery Regiment - Bolgrad
25th Artillery Regiment - Ismail

12th Infatry Division was also disbanded during the army reorganization of September 1940.

Map with the disposition of units before the territorial losses of 1940.

Hi Dragos,

I have a photocopy of that map. It is on p.53 of "Eliberarea Basarabiei si a Nordului Bucovinei".

There is another map on p.54 showing Romanian deployments after the territorial losses. The trouble with this one is that it doesn't agree with what appears to be a more detailed map on p.27 of "Romania si Basarabia" (by Anatol Petrencu, 1999). The trouble with the Petrencu map is that it is badly reproduced and I cannot read many of the divisional numbers. The Petrencu map is also reproduced on the cover of "Armata Romana de la Ultimatum la Dictat", but this time the title is printed across it and again it is impossible to read large parts.

It is clear that the information is available, but nobody in the publishing industry seems to realise the vital importance of accurate and legible maps to any military history book. A good map is worth many, many pages of text.

Cheers,

Sid.

Hi Dragos,

I have been looking at a pre-war Romanian ethnic map.

Eight counties (judet?) are noted as having a majority of minorities.

Hungarian majority: Odorhei, Ciuc, Trei Scaune.
Ruthene majority: Storijinet, Cernauti, Hotin.
Bulgarian majority: Caliacra.
Turkish majority: Durostor.

Did any of them have Romanian Army regimental depots in them? From our earlier posts, it appears that Odorhei, Ciuc and Trei Scaune did not. What about the others?

Cheers,

Sid.

Sid, can you post the map, so I can see what localties encompass these counties?

Hi Dragos,

I cannot post the map over the internet because I use a library terminal, but I can tell you the source - "Spatiul istoric si etnic Romanesc" (Editura Militara, Bucharest, 1992). It was in Volume 2, I think. It is a three volume atlas.

I can post a xerox to you if you leave a postal address in my PM box.

From what I remember, Caliacra and Durostor were exactly the same area as Southern Dobrogea.

Cheers,

Sid.

Depots in the "Quadrilateral" (Southern Dobruja):
4th Frontier guards Regiment - Balcic
36th Infantry Regiment - Silistra

For the depots in Bessarabia I'll return later.