Some comments needed

I started to gather data for Gr. 7 Vt. at Stalingrad.I was looking at what you said and I want to ask: are those sorties per plane, or total number of sorties for the groups ?

I have thought well of this, after reading some facts related to Gr. 7 Vt. - for example at some point, due to the lack of spare parts, only half of the 109's were availble.This + the lost 109's will give way less then 36 available in october.So if taken the number of hours flown in october and divide it by the avarage number of serviceble planes during that month, I should get what I need for romanian Bf109-E group.Then I have to do same thing for Gr. 6 and Gr.8 Vt. and for all german fighter units, only after I do this I can compare the (hours flown)/(avarage serviceble planes) with the ratio of available fighters for both airforces.Still searching for number of hours, I clearly remember of seeing it in some book last year.

Hi D13th-Mytzu,

I think you have to factor in lack of serviceability, as this was probably the main factor restricting the number of sorties Romanian pilots were able to make.

It is also probable that German serviceability was better than Romanian, for reasons I detailed above. If you discount poor serviceability you will be distorting the true picture.

You might include lower serviceability as a factor accounting for lower Romanian than German sortie rates, but I would suggest that you cannot reasonably ignore it altogether.

Cheers,

Sid.

They are the total number of sorties the group made. You were looking for flight hours (from the same source):

- 6th Fighter Group: 936 hours/718 sorties = 1 hour and 20 minutes/sortie on average; the group operated only in 81 days during its 138 day campaign, that means it made in average 8.86 sorties/day
- 8th Fighter Group: 813 hours/668 sorties = 1 hour and 12 minutes/sortie on average; the group operated only in 60 days during its 90 day campaign, that means it made in average 11.13 sorties/day

The IAR-80s experienced several difficulties in the harsh enviromental conditions in the steppe west of Stalingrad. The dust wrecked havoc in the engine's oil filters and reduced the lifespan of the IAR K14 IVc32 engines. This was in September and October. After the snow fell and the temperature dropped drastically the engines could be started only with great difficulty. The heaters proved to be uneffective, as were several mixtures of gas and oil used by the Luftwaffe. Like Sid said, serviceability was a pretty important factor.

Hi Victor,

Excellent statistics.

What was your source? Was it the Dan Antoniu IAR80 book I am trying to get?

Cheers,

Sid.

Yes.

Sid I said before that I must count an error - included in it being the lower servicibilty of romanian crafts - but now I am thinking of changing the system I wanted to use and instead of counting it as an error, to make a better statistic of available/non-available planes and the hours of flight made by those who could fly.This should give a much better ideea of what happened.As for the reason of lower servicibility then german crafts: romanian IAR was not as performant (when it comes to resitence, maitenance) as the 109's Also as Victor said: the dust affected very much the IAR's but I did not hear about this problem for romanian 109's (yet), the 7th Fighter Group which was equpied with 109's suffered a lot from lack of spare parts.I started to make a day to day statistic for Gr 7 Vt at Stalingrad (before the soviet offensive) but it is incomplete for I lack sufficient sources.

Here is what I have so far on Gr. 7 Vt:



Comandant Gr 7 Vt: Cpt. Grigore Crihana
Comandant Esc 57: Cpt. Al. Manoliu
Comandant Esc 58: Cpt. Dan SScurtu
Total pilots: 23 (for the 2 squadrons)



09 Sept:
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* Esc 57 + 58 la Stalingrad cu 25 avioane

10 Sept: * ?
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11 Sept: * ?
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12 Sept:
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* Cpt. Manoliu KIA, Serbanescu temporary taking command of Esc 57

13 Sept: * ?
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14 Sept:
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* 06:10 4 Bf109 in escort duty, engaged 4 Yak1, adj. Ctin Ursachi 1 victory
* 07:10 4 bf109 escorta Ju87
* 08:10 3 bf109 protecting sector (engaged i16, Mucenica forced to land on german airfield)

15 Sept:
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* 23 planes sent to protect sector (bomber escort)


16 Sept:
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* ? bf109 escort ; ? Bf109 free hunt; 4 Bf109 free hunt

17 Sept:
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* 04:55 4 Bf109 protection in Kotluban - Volga area
* 05:?? 4 Bf109 protection in Kotluban - Volga area
* 06:?? 4 Bf109 protection in Kotluban - Volga area, Serbanescu scores 1 Yak

18 Sept:
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* 13 planes in Stalingrad area


19 Sept:
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* 04:45 4 Bf109 protection duty South Kotluban, engaged 16 Yak, Dicezare 1 victory
* 10:30 4 Bf109 protection in Gratsky area , engaged 12 Yak
* after noon repeating of the above missions

20 Sept:
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* Starting this day, 2 Bf109 were PERMANENTLY making airfield protection (all day long).Dicezare scores 1 Pe2 near the airfield, Malacescu dammages 1 Pe2 during same day while making airfield protection

21 Sept:
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* 13:35 - 14:50 protection in Stalingrad area
* 15:50 4 Bf109 east of Stalingrad in free hunt
!!! More then half of the planes from Esc 57 and Esc 58 were uncerviceble due to the lack of spare parts.From this day (due to low servicibility) 109's will go together with IAR's

22 Sept:
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* 05:40 2 Bf109 airfield protection
* 06:30 4 Bf109 in sector protection
* 11:50 4 Bf109 in sector protection
* afternoon 3 Bf109 free hunt mission, engaged 3 yak, slt. Vintila Bratianu 1 victory

23 Sept:
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* 06:50 4 Bf109 escort duty
* 09:20 4 Bf109 escort duty, 3 of them escorting bombers as far as 100 Km north, had to return to base due to fuel shortage.
* 10 - 11 adj. Iolu N. airfield protection, dammaged 1 Pe2 (1 engine set on fire), 1 crew member jumps with the parachute
* after 12 ock, 4 Bf109 in free hunt mission
!!! During evening, no 109's were available for airfield protection due to the lack of serviceable planes
!!! Esc 57 had only 4 operational planes out of 13 and Esc 58 only 3 out of 9.

24 Sept:
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* 05:50 8 Bf109 engaged 4 Yak, Greceanu 1 victory West Kotluban (the Yak exploded in the air)
* 7 Bf109 airfield defence (most proabbly throuout the day)
* 3 Bf109 free hunt in Kotluban area

25 Sept:
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* 15:55 Serbanescu downs a 1 i-153 30 km NW Kotluban (biplane with retracteble gear)

26 Sept:
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* 4 Bf109 airfield protection

27 Sept:
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* 1 Bf109 airfield protection, one enemy bomber is set on fire
* 7 Bf109 sector protection
* 3 Bf109 can see a fight between 4 IAR-80 and 15 Yak (Avram Olimpiu scores 1 victory)

28 Sept:
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* 4 Bf109 escort duty, engaged 7 Yak

29 Sept:
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* Cpt. Grigore Crihana shoots down 1 Pe2

30 Sept:
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* adj Al. Moldoveanu dammages 1 Pe2
* 3 bf109 sector protection


!!! 3 oct. "the newly arrived Esc 56" with 9 Bf109 (initially they were 10 but one had engine failure and had to remain at Rostov), 4 more 109's are on their way.

!!! 5 oct. Gr 7 Vt with all 3 squadrons, starts to move to Karpovka airfield (48 Km away from Stalingrad), on 7th oct. they are operational on the new airfield



Note: Sector protection actually means they were watching german and romanian bombers performing missions in that area, so it could be consider bomber escort - the only difference is that they stayed in that area and could cover several waves of bombers.The VVS didn't send fighters behind the lines so this is probably why romanian fighters were watching over a specific area in order to protect bombers instead of escorting them all the way.

Also, as you can see, these statistics are very incomplete, but so far it is the best I could get.

Hi!
About Gr.7 Vt.
In action from September 9 with 18 a/c,bewteen Sept.10 to 1st Oct. with 9 a/c, total 90 days at front with 55 days in action,827 hours 50 min. with 805 a/c,85 free hunt mis.,80 mis. protection for bombardment,92 mis. cover,15 dogfights with 8 sure victories,2 a/c lost in dogfight.That was from Sept.9 to Dec.6.After that was in "Grupul Mixt" with some IAR-80s and He-111.

Thank you very much George.

This statistic is also between september and 1st october ?

Is between Sept. and 06.12.1942.I will try for activity every day.
George

Thank you George, I really want to make this research on 2 stages: between 9 september and 19 november and from offensive day till the retreat of Vanatori.
Right now I am making detailed research on IAR-80/81 groups.

If you want,e-mail me and will discuss about IAR-80 groups.There are not so much data about,a lot is missing.A great part of war archives where burned in 1944 in T.Severin railroad in an US atack.
George

Thank you George - pls check PM.