Indrid Banned?, what happened?

Sid, you are certainly entitled to an opinion. But if that opinion goes against an "older" member who has been here for years ( I dont know exactly, Indrid has 1 or 2years behind here) and with whom at least Alex established close "forum-relations" the time you spent getting to know that member enters the equation.

Hi Imperialist,

O.K. In the time I have had "getting to know" Indrid, he added more to the friction of the forum than to our enlightenment.

Can you perhaps point me to a good, friction-free, factual contribution Indrid made to the forum before my time, preferably on a topic related to the Romanian military. I am prepared to revise my opinion if the evidence is there.

Cheers,

Sid.

http://www.worldwar2.ro/memorii/?article=107

Care to eat your own words???

This post has been edited by Alexandru H. on June 14, 2005 04:56 pm

Hi Alexandru H.,

It depends. I couldn't find Indrid's name anywhere on the article. Is he Gabriel Szekely?

Can you clarify?

Cheers,

Sid.

Hmmm.....what would have been the point to present you with a random link, I do not understand..................

He wrote that article, it is a description of his grandfather exploits on the battlefield during WW2. I call that a contribution to the forum.

So, once again, i expect you to eat your words....

This post has been edited by Alexandru H. on June 15, 2005 07:11 am

As I already explained to one of the admins, they should drop the "forum guidelines" excuse from their vocabulary. If one reads that "document", he won't find any pretext for such a ban. And when someone receives a week suspension for "excessive swearing" one has to wonder whether simple, not excessive swearing may be ok to use in the future.

Indrid has already been suspended once before and would have deserved it several other suspentions, but both me and Dragos looked away. This is also valid for other members. However, some just keep going and going, until the situation has to stop some way or the other.

When we (Dragos and I) started this site and the forum related to it, we had in mind mostly the discussions on the overlooked and belittled Romanian army of WW2. The site and forum then evolved to include WW1 and other periods of Romanian military history. Unfortunately "General Discussion" and the War in Irak has been the most popular part for a part of the members. You and others (Zayda for example) may disconsider the military history discussions, call them boring, uninteresting. It's your opinion, but they are the main focus here and frankly that is what I and Dragos want mostly. Not to stop cockfights between you and Imperialist, delete swearing, censure extremist ideas etc, etc. General Dicussion was created mostly for members to get to know eachother better, not fight between them.

You don't like the way me and Dragos run things here, you don't like the "it's my forum, I make the rules" line. It's your right. As I said many times: start your own forum, where you can discuss all the politics, non-PC, religious beliefs etc, etc. you wish. You yourself said that you plan to make an online magazine with Indrid some while ago. You can add a forum there (network54.com offers free hosting for forums) and run it the way you like. Things here aren't going to change. I am aware that we can't please everybody. We made some efforts to please the memebrs (we even allowed you to discuss Romanian politics), but I won't see this forum turn into something that drifts away from the original idea.

Btw, if Indrid wants his grandfather's memoirs removed from the site, he can relay the message through you.

And drop the aggressive tone. Sid has as much right to express his opinion as much as you do.

Do you know that this is the most moderator-used expression? Why is that? Since no one else besides alexkdl has managed to utter real threats, I can only assume that with all the cockfights, we are still normal beings, that don't need to be guided every step of the way. For example, Imperialist, I and Indrid go at the same faculty together, but I don't think we ever stopped to fight in midstreet.

While I can understand some of your decisions (like my previous ban), I can't, for the name of God, to comprehend some of the others. You don't only moderate, you intervene in discussions, forcing members to share your point of view, you give obscure reasons like that "forum guideline" thingy, which I've read probably over 50 times (trying to extract from it at least one useful conduct rule) and acting like everything is well-known in your circles. Do you even know what Gabi told dragos right before his ban? He told thim that he doesn't know anything about politics. Which I agree, nobody knows everything, therefore we shouldn't accept ultimate point of views, like some of your opinions tend to be.

Well, let's just offer a simple example, shall we? We'll use the most popular thread in the forum, which has a whooping 119 pages, is a sticky and has quite an interesting name: Tidal Wave Footage Photos, 15th AAF and Luftwaffe, 'Black Sunday', 1 August 1943

http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=1613

What do we find here? Well there is this guy (let's call him Stalin) that watches a documentary on DVD and decides to make pictures of each single frame. He, then, posts them in this thread, one at a time. Glorious! Boring people like me are no match for such a feat!

Victor, for your information, I watch most of the discussions, but don't reply in them because it's not my place. I think what you do with the site is great and the informations are quite interesting, so what would you do with someone that doesn't know anything about airplanes? But a person that asks something in the ARR forums will most likely leave, never to return, except for another question. The role of the General Discussion subforum is to form a lively atmosphere that accepts everyone, but not everything.

Things don't change if things go well. Things aren't going well. I may not be the most important person here, or the most interesting, or the most loved (heck, I could be the most hated) but at least I am interested in discussion. Without a few key members, your forum will go back to an unfinished state, a place where you can find answers but don't visit because it's a cemetery.

Sid, here is my contribution to the WW2 history: my grandfather was a quartermaster that stayed in the reserve and stole precious supplies from our troops. I don't think anyone wants his memoires...

Edit: And maybe someone could explain to me why am I not allowed to change my avatar. My chosen picture doesn't break any known rules or guidelines.



This post has been edited by Alexandru H. on June 14, 2005 06:23 pm

Personally, I'm sorry that Indrid was banned. I hope that (ultimately) it is not permanent.

That said, I can't say that I am surprised.

For me the line between "interesting contributor" and "annoying" can be a narrow one. Indrid was certainly on the right side of it sometimes, but he was on the wrong side too. I don't see constant personal attacks as a contribution, and he made plenty of them. It's one thing to point out the biases or inaccuracies someone's background, experience, or education may introduce in their argument -- I do that too when I'm debating a point. Hopefully we are adult enough to not take it personally. But the sarcasm, the flames, attacking other member's right to even have an opinion on a topic -- that does very little to advance anyone's understanding. And these were not isolated incidents.

One of the things I personally enjoy about this forum is the diverse backgrounds of the members (yeah, it needs more women, but that goes with the territory in military history). Some of us have experience as professional soldiers or historians, some of us are students. We come from many different countries. We are different ages. We have different political views. We don't encourage these differences by stereotyping people or attacking them.

About the criticism of the moderators... I can't claim to have vast experience on other forums, but I do have some. I find their behavior perfectly reasonable. They want the focus of the forum to stay on Romanian military history, but they allow some discussion of other topics. They ask that people treat each other civilly, refrain from insults and abuse, avoid stereotypes. They don't want to be constantly breaking up fights, or have to spend every waking moment policing the forum. I don't see anything unreasonable here. They are normal rules to allow people from different backgrounds and cultures to mix together without the purpose of the forum being hopelessly diluted.

As for the "censorship" argument, people just need to grow up. Freedom of speech is just that: freedom to express your ideas. It does not mean you are entitled to anyone else's web site, printing press, radio station, phone number, and so on. The Internet makes it easier and cheaper than ever for any fool to express any opinion he/she wishes. But it makes it easy for the rest of us to escape from these opinions, too.

Can anyone tell my why is the Indrid user in the active list, since he is not on-line? I have screenshots....

I have a few ideas about it, but I want to hear something official....

This post has been edited by Alexandru H. on June 14, 2005 06:51 pm

Alexandru, of the un-banned members, I think you probably are the most hated.

I'm sure you won't take it personally. In fact, I think you like it that way.

I see him there too. Something really stinks.

He is listed as suspended until 2008. I don't know exactly how the software works, but I can make some tests.

As it is written there, the on-line users list displays the list of users that were active in the last 15 minutes. If a member is suspended and tries to log in, he will appear in the active users list though.

But of course, it's the evil moderators that took over his account and use it now for occult reasons.

Aha! I was right!

Well, when you see someone that's banned still in the active list, you have to wonder through what magic he is still there!

This post has been edited by Alexandru H. on June 14, 2005 07:53 pm

What a relief. At least now we know, if we see him in the forum, that it is just a zombie version of him.

And he's not banned permanently, just until 2008.