Romania 1940 - the Possible War: Romanian Airforce, The Royal Romanian Aeronautics in 1940

No info, no details... nobody?

As long as I don't have the exact figures, I'll refrain from making assumptions; but sometime next week I'll check some (other) documents I have. Until then, I have some new things to worry about:
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Mihai Jr. appeared on this world on 16.10 and in my home on 22.10! Since then, some things changed - some for better...

Ha-ha, congratulations, and God bless him!

You must be one proud and happy father.

This post has been edited by Agarici on October 31, 2010 12:09 am

Sorry for the late reply. I completely forgot about this topic.

There were 11 Bf-109Es in June 1940 (see Air Mag Hors Serie no. 1 - Les Bf 109 roumains). After the remaining 39 Bf-109Es ordered were delivered in February 1941, the 7th Fighter Group was reorganized to include the two new Bf-109 squadrons. That is probably when the 53rd Fighter Squadron became independent.

PS: Congratulations MMM!

Sorry for the late reply. I completely forgot about this topic.

There were 11 Bf-109Es in June 1940 (see Air Mag Hors Serie no. 1 - Les Bf 109 roumains). After the remaining 39 Bf-109Es ordered were delivered in February 1941, the 7th Fighter Group was reorganized to include the two new Bf-109 squadrons. That is probably when the 53rd Fighter Squadron became independent.

PS: Congratulations MMM!

Thanks a lot, Victor! But, does the French magazine specify any documentary source for that? Because if it doesn't, as I see it, we have a version in two sources and another one in a third. I can also imagine that both "Istoria aviatiei romane..." and D. Bernard had a documentary backing for the figure used.

Denes, any oppinion or suggestion on that?

The author of the French text is Vasile Tudor AFAIK. He has good access to the archives in Pitesti.

I am in France right now, have no access to my files. However, whatever I wrote in my book is certainly backed-up by documents.

I will try to reply on this coming week-end.

Gen. Dénes

So, after reading the lists with airplanes shown in this topic, I understand that no I.A.R.-80 were available in August 1940. Quite a surprise to me, knowing that the prototype flew more than one year earlier. I learned something here...

Well, this is a "common" mistake! Some weeks ago, while presenting some stuff I've written for my thesis, a (very old) professor told me (I quote from memory) "we had some of the best / most performant fighters at the beginning of the war", and I replied to him that the numbers of such planes in the RoAF of that time (1939-1940-1941) were very small, at which he was quite surprised; fortunately, I could byck up my affirmations with documents...

The first order was placed by MAM with the I.A.R. Works only in December 1939.

The first 20 aircraft reached their units (Esc. 59 and 60 van. of the newly created Gr. 8 van, assigned under command of Flot. 2 van.) in Febr. 1941.

Gen. Dénes

The first order was placed by MAM with the I.A.R. Works only in December 1939.

The first 20 aircraft reached their units (Esc. 59 and 60 van. of the newly created Gr. 8 van, assigned under command of Flot. 2 van.) in Febr. 1941.

Gen. Dénes

OK, but, according to Denes Bernard, Romanian Aces of World War 2 (2003), page 9:

“On 12 August 1939, the influx of Western-built aircraft meant that the ARR had 121 combat-ready fighters. Besides the Polish gull-winged PZL P.11s and P.24s, which still formed the mainstay of the ARR’s fighter force, the inventory also included the first He 112s and Hurricanes. By the following June, when the war had been raging in Europe for more than nine months, 122 fighters were among the total of 587 frontline aircraft. This number comprised 30 PZL P.24 Es, 30 He 112 Bs, 20 Bf 109 Es and 12 Hurricanes, together with 30 IAR 80s of indigenous manufacture. However, the latter type had not actually been delivered because the first batch was still undergoing acceptance testing at the factory. So, apart from the latest Bf 109 Es, the most noticeable difference compared to the previous year’s line-up was that the obsolescent IAR-built PZL P.11 B/Fs were no longer listed as being in the frontline service. This meant that by mid-1940 all tha ARR’s main fighter squadrons were equipped with modern equipment.”

So using this source it appears that 30 IARs were completed and undergoing tests by June 1940, and in case of emergency could had been pressed quickly into action. This is an important info in my opinion, since by that time the Soviets had no similar airplane in their inventory, and ~ 30 IAR 80s in plus on the Romanian side on the “Eastern front” could had made a difference.

Yes, your assumption is correct. However, as stated, those 30 I.A.R. 80s were still undergoing factory tests in August 1940, so it is unclear how quickly could they be impressed into combat service, ready for action.

I would note that the Soviet A.F. did have aircraft types comparable to the I.A.R. 80 in the Summer of 1940 (what they called 'modern types') - albeit in small numbers only. I refer here mainly to the in-line fighters, notably the Yak-1 (albeit, the first deliveries happened only in late 1940, AFAIK).

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on November 14, 2010 09:39 am

Thank you for your answer, Denes! I think the picture is a little bit clearer now.

But what about those 20 (vs. 11) Bf. 109 Es? If they were already delivered, I think the 7th Fighter Group must have had two 109 squadrons by that time, and perhaps 53rd squadron (with the Hurricanes) was already independent.

I would say that, although significantly weaker, especially number-wise (and it wasn't at all my purpose to challenge that), ARR wasn't at all defenseless in June 1940, facing the VVS. The sintagm use by A. Calinescu in his notes at a certain point in 1939, that the planes in service with the Romanian military aeronautics were "vechi si proaste" (old and useless), and taken from him by some political and military top figures in 1940, was clearly an understatement of the real situation.

This post has been edited by Agarici on November 14, 2010 11:35 am