Cavalry cannon ("artilerie calareata"), characteristics...

Until the entering in WW 1, the field guns used by the Romanian artillery were produced by Krupp German manufacturer. Among these, the Krupp 75 mm rapid firing cannon stood up. Considered to be among the most modern field guns of the time, it was a 1904 modified version (at the request of a Romanian military commission) of the Krupp 75 mm model 1899. But there also was a 1908 variant of the same gun, designated as the "cavalry cannon" in the Romanian army and forming the "artilerie calareata" batteries of the cavalry divisions. Some of this Krupp cannons (especially the cavalry versions) remained in service until the beginning of WW 2.

Now my question is: which are the differences between a cavalry gun ("artilerie calareata") and a normal horse drawn artillery piece? In the case of the two Krupp cannons (1904 model and 1908 model), the sources which I have access to specify that the latter is a "slightly modified, cavalry version" of the former... Thanks.

I will look into it at home, but my feeling is that the designation "artilerie calareata" is given to unit, not to piece of equipment, and so the Regimentul X artilerie calareata would be the Xth Horse artillery Regiment, a standard designation for the cavalry divisions/brigades, no matter of the artillery models assigned to the unit. At least for the WW2 period.

I say, like Dragos... This was the name who appeared in 18... when first battery appeared in cavalry units.

Iama

Usually horse artillery guns are lighter in weight so they can keep up with the cavalry and sometimes also have a modified wheel.

The only modification I could find for a 75mm Krupp, carried out by Romanians, is tunul de camp romanesc cu tragere repede, calibrul 75 mm, md. 1904 (the Romanian quick firing field gun, caliber 75 mm, Model 1904). The piece was an improved 75mm Krupp Model 1899, which had elastic binding trails and improved optics - "Ghenea" goniometer-backsight with panoramic sight. But it was not a design dedicated to cavalry.

The cavalry gun model 1908 is a Japanese modification of the Krupp, which seems to have seen service in the Romanian Army too.

The artillery was towed by horses from the early days of this weapon. As branch of the army, the diference between the regular artillery and the horse artillery was that the servants of the guns in the horse artillery unit were mounted, so they can keep up with the rest of the unit, and not to walk by foot at the pace of the infantrymen.

The major modifications of gun's wheels were introduced for the motorized towing, the wooden spiked wheel being replaced with a steel one, occasionally with rubber tires and suspensions.

The earliest model I found is Krupp Model 1896 7,7 cm cal. towed cannon.
Another similar cannon was Rheinmetall Model 1904 7,5 cm cal. towed mountain cannon.

The German cannon developed specifically for the cavalry was Model 1916 7,5 cm cal., made by Krupp, which replaced the Rheinmetall Model 1916 7,7 cm cal. cannon. The firing rate was 8-10 RPM (rounds per minute). It was used in W.W. II as well.
If you need the weapon's specs., just let me know.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on July 20, 2005 11:50 pm

Interesting thread.
Dragos, do you mean that a Japanese-made field gun was imported and used by the Romanian Army?

Ruy

Interesting thread.
Dragos, do you mean that a Japanese-made field gun was imported and used by the Romanian Army?

Ruy

No Ruy, he said that a gun modified and used by the Japanese is a version of the Krupp 75 mm model 1908, also imported and used by the Romanian army.

My first question was about that Krupp model: was it a "cavalry cannon" and if it was which were its specification? And my second question, more general: on several occasion I've seen the designation "cavalry cannon" for some artillery pieces. What made them different from the normal (horse-drawn) artillery?

"In ce priveste armamentul de insotire, se constata intarirea "bateriilor calarete", prevazute cu tunuri Krupp ghintuite, din bronz si otel, cu incarcare pe la culata, cu bataie destul de mare si precizie sporita" - Asigurarea materiala, medicala si veterinara/ chapter Organizarea trupelor de cavalerie (1866-1877). Source: "Istoria Cavalerie Romane".

And a nice short poem:
"Doamne, daca-mi esti prieten,
Cum sustii in gura mare,
Moaie-ti tocul in cerneala
Si-nainte de culcare
Da-i in scris porunca mortii,
Cand si-o ascuti pumnalul,
Sa-l infiga-n mine, Doamne,
Si sa-mi lase-n viata calul"

From the same book.

Yes, according to "Armata romana 1941-1945" published by RAI, 1996, the Japanese model was among the artillery pieces used by the Romanian Army. However, I don't think this necessary mean that the guns were imported directly from Japan. The period from 1908 up to the Second World War is large enough so that some pieces of equipment to change hands several times.

This post has been edited by dragos on July 22, 2005 01:56 pm

Hi Dragos,

The Russians had some Japanese guns (a tiny minority was captured during the Russo-Japanese war of 1905, while other, more modern guns were actually imported during the Great War). Later on, some of the Japanese field guns kept in the Russian stocks were sent to the Republican Spanish government.
Maybe the Romanian army acquired some Japanese guns at some point, possibly with some intermediary dealers acting in-between. Any details on this topic are most welcome!
Some Japanese artillery (rifles too - Arisaka Type 30 rifles and carbines chambered for the Mexican Mauser 7x57 calibre*) also found its way to immediately before the war, having been exported by the their Japanese manufacturers...

Ruy

* Sizeable quantities of Arisaka Type 30 rifles in their original Japanese calibre were sold to Russia and Great Britain during World War I.

I think the Romanian army also had a number of Arisaka rifles. They were still in service several years before the start of WW2.

I can confirm that. But according to my sources - in Pascu, S., Ceausescu, I., Musat M.., Ardeleanu I. (coord.) - Istoria militara a poporului roman, Editura Militara, Bucuresti, 1989 (vol. V), the Arisaka rifles were in use in the Romanian army in the first years after WW1, until the late 20"s-early 30's. They were however in bad condition (unusable?), as signaled in a report of the General Staff.

A probable source of procurement for those rifles, as for the Schneider-Putilov 75 mm cannons, was the army depots of the former Imperial Russian army from Moldova and Bassarabia, seized by the Romanian authorities after the Bolshevik revolution.

This post has been edited by Agarici on July 23, 2005 10:11 am

Yes, according to "Armata romana 1941-1945" published by RAI, 1996, the Japanese model was among the artillery pieces used by the Romanian Army. However, I don't think this necessary mean that the guns were imported directly from Japan. The period from 1908 up to the Second World War is large enough so that some pieces of equipment to change hands several times.

“The Meiji 41 aka Type 41 was a modification of the Krupp M.08 model and was first produced at Osaka Arsenal in 1908. They continued in service for a number of years and were still to be seen in 1941.” Source: http://www.jedsite.info/artillery/kilo/kru...ji41-intro.html

The source above, indicated by Dragos, mention that the Meiji is a version of Krupp 75 mm 1908 model. My sources - in the same Pascu, S., Ceausescu, I., Musat M.., Ardeleanu I. (coord.) - Istoria militara a poporului roman, Editura Militara, Bucuresti, 1989 (vol. V and VI) mention the Krupp model 1908 (designated as the “Krupp cavalry gun”) as being use by the Romanian cavalry, but make no reference to any Japanese version of this gun (nor to any other Japanese artillery pieces). Dragos, I didn’t get this right - does your source explicitly mention the use of the Japanese cannon by the Romanian army?