HAWK Aquisition by RoAF

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/mis...s/hawk/Hawk.htm

Just consider how much is a Patriot Missile we do what we cane to replace the obsolete S-75 Volhov. That is what the HAWk will replace ( in theory). I thing that main reason was to have a updated missile system that can be linked with the National Radar System with minimum costs ...

Yes. Greece and Turkey are both original members of NATO.

Nothing to offer? Nothing that is directly comparable with the Hawk, maybe. But they do sell SAMs:

From France:
Crotale has nothing like the range of the Hawk
Mistral is also more comparable with Stinger than Hawk

From Italy:
Spada/Aspide provides a better area-defense capability, somewhat like the Hawk.

Personally I would say that the US Army places more faith in Patriot than in Stinger. But that may be because nobody in the U.S. Army today has had to face hostile aircraft -- missiles are the only threat they have actually seen.

Unfortunatelly yesterday i did'nt have enough time to write more. But, Jeff and Tomcat...


I know about Greece, my question was with an "apropos" about what someone says "mixed stuff" of Greece who bought weapon systems from NATO countryes and also from Russia.

France and Italy had something to offer. I think Spada 2000 system with his Aspide rokets it is an up graded system much cappable than HAWK in some aspects, but i think Aspide rockets have a shorter range.

Thanks Tomcat for that link. I lost them, and i was sure there i will find something about HAWK PIP III.


Yesterday I not writed about short range missiles because are incomparable with HAWK in range, even some of them are newer.

But:

At short range SAM chapter, the market offer enough to have to choose:

ADATS - Canadian SHORAD (short range air defence) made by Oerlikon Contraves, in service with Canada from 1988 and Thayland in a deal ended in 1994 (Thayland have shelter based launcher and mobile launchers).
Missiles have a range of interception of 10km and maximum ceiling of 7km, a speed of Mach +3, and can be used against ground targets with a capability to penetrate 900 m.m. of RHA (rolled homogenous armor).
In a palletised version, can be integrated with the Oerlikon Contraves Skyshield Air Defence System, and this is a good thing for us.

BAMSE RBS23 ALL-WEATHER AIR DEFENCE MISSILE, SWEDEN
The missile has a range of more than 15km and covers altitudes to 15,000m.
In 2000, the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration awarded Saab a production contract for the system with deliveries starting in 2005.

This is a newer system, but for sure he had a price...

Crotale NG
Speed mach 3.5 plus
Manoeuvrability, load factors up to 35 g
target range 11 km
target ceiling over 6,000 metres
Crotale NG entered production in 1990 and is in service with the Finnish Army (20 systems), the French Air Force (12 shelter-mounted systems) and the French Navy. Thales signed a contract with Greece in June 1999 for eleven Crotale NG systems, nine for the Air Force and two for the Navy. The system has also been sold to Saudi Arabia and Oman.
In February 2000, Thales and Samsung were jointly awarded the contract for the Republic of Korea Pegasus (Chun Ma) K-SAM (Korean Surface-to-Air Missile) programme. The contract called for the production of 48 Crotale NG surveillance and fire control systems. Samsung Thales was awarded a follow-on contract in December 2003.

JERNAS / RAPIER FSC AIR DEFENCE SYSTEM UK

Aprox. 8 km range....

Roland 3

Aprox. 8 km ...

SPYDER SURFACE-TO-AIR PYTHON 5 AND DERBY AIR DEFENCE MISSILE SYSTEM, ISRAEL

This system impressed me.

Maximum kill zone range >15km
Minimum kill zone range <1km
Maximum kill altitude 9km
Minimum kill altitude 20m

Derby Missile - Range >63km BVR... but i don't find something to say that will operate at this range in this system
Python 5 Missile - Range >15km

MICA VLS

The maximum target range is 10,000m and 9,000m altitude.
But, the system is not yet in service.
In February 2005, the system, mounted on an ACMAT multi-role vehicle of the French Army, was demonstrated for the Indian Air Force. MBDA and Bharat Dynamics Ltd are proposing VL Mica for the Indian requirement for a low level quick reaction air defence missile...


But, this are short range missiles, western systems. We don't have moneys for Patriot and certainly we will not have moneys for MEADS when will came into service... Of course we don't have money for HAWK+AMRAAM system who is more cappable then PIP III HAWK.

How about Aster 15 (30 km range) and Aster 30 (100 km range)?

Is a new system. I never found data about in service yet ground systems. I know, we don't have money... But...

"ASTER 30-SAMP/T (Ground-to-Air Medium-Range/Land) for ground based anti-air self-defence, projected force protection and national or allied asset defence, with an Anti-Tactical Ballistic Missile capability,"

Sources:
http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/siteFO...g=EN&noeu_id=87
www.army-technology.com
www.naval-technology.com

Iama

yes I know that France and Italy has SAMS to offer, but I am referint to Medium Range SAMS.

From what I know, only ASTER or Mica VL might have the range of the HAWK.
BTW the rummors are that MICA VL is the one selected to upgrade our new frigates
I've read that in some forums.

I still say that , compare with what we have , HAWK PiPIII is a good choice for the money we are willing to spent .

Happy to hear that!!!! I whis tho have MICA VLS on our ships!!!

Iama

http://www.jurnalul.ro/articol.php?id=3791

How about that? An interview with someone ( Krista van Veltzen) from Holland, member of Holland's parlament. K.v.K. says... those rockets expire this year!!!

Iama

This post has been edited by Iamandi on August 10, 2005 06:53 am

hehe Jurnal keep digging out shit ... Man where did you saw a military Item to expire out? heck in Romanian revolution in CJ they used 7.62x39 bullets made in '67 and '68

Why is Romania looking for fixed SAMs anyway? Who is the opponent?

Is not like that.. SI VIS PACEM PARA BELUM.. plain and simple.
Our SAM where older version of the SAM-2(s-75 Volhov). Those will be replaced by HAWK. Those bellong to the Airforce. The army has the mobile ones i think.

Why is Romania looking for fixed SAMs anyway? Who is the opponent?

World wide terrorism!

Iama

The philosopher and patriot in me agrees with you. I'm just saying that better decisions about military force structure and equipment include some thinking about the threat, and what missions that military must accomplish.

It's perfectly reasonable to maintain an anti-aircraft capability just to keep those technical skills and tactics alive in your military. But by doing this, you give up something else.

The army has mobile Hawk? I know the SA-2 can be carried on a transporter, but I would not call it mobile.

About SA-2 i will try to speak with one of my friends, an ex mr. from SAMs.


Iama

Hate to burst the bubble here but the press in The Netherlands pointed out this earlier.And yes,about the '90's batch they received. Watch out! What causes cancer is not the missile , but their RADARS! Reading in dutch from De Telegraaf : http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/1773529..._en_kanker.html

What is also suspect in the whole equation is the fact that Netherlands DON't HAVE yet a budget to replace those missiles.Then,why get rid of them now? Of course, the installation that provoques cancer si their radars not the missile itself but still...
As for Turkey delivery it's supposed to have 12 pieces from Belgium and 8 from The Netherlands at this stage unless situation was not changed yet , so I can't be sure. I am too lazy to translate this page but here it goes for some further clues :

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kicadam/kurdistan/dogan.html

What pisses me off is that in this era when information is at your fingertips nobody struggles to find the correct answer. I am not saying that Hawks are crap but given the circumstances I would think twice before buying such a system. It is not a media hype,at least in The Netherlands.Everything was proven to the detail.

This post has been edited by Zayets on August 15, 2005 12:33 pm

yes man... but what I am writong here is that ALL Radars can give you Cancer due to the powerfull EM radiation they emit.