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> ? 7th Cav Div, Nov 1942
Pavel
Posted: September 11, 2005 10:40 pm
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Gentlemen,

One more question. Could anyone please provide details on third cavalry regiment (other than pair of 11's) available to Divizia 7 Cavalerie during actions of November 19th at Blinovskiy? There are sources suggesting it was Regimentul 5 Rosiori Moto, formerly integral to Divizia 9 Cavalerie. If so, was it a permanent subordination or this regiment got temporarily under 7th Cav? After all, how it happened to be there? And BTW does Moto means it was motorised rather than cavalry?

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sid guttridge
Posted: September 12, 2005 12:32 pm
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Hi Pavel,

If I remember rightly, 7th Cavalry Division was entirely on foot at this time.

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Sid.
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Victor
Posted: September 12, 2005 01:31 pm
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Here, again, it is a problem of conflicting sources. One source gives what is written on the site in the OoB section (only two regiments: 11th Rosiori and 11th Calarasi). Another one, which lately I am beginning to consider as more reliable, gives the following OoB for the 7th Cavalry Division in 1942:
- 9th Calarasi Regiment
- 11th Motorized Rosirori Regiment
- 12th Motorized Rosirori Regiment
- 5th Horse Artillery Regiment

The 5th Motorized Rosiori Regiment was assigned to it on 19 November 1942 as reinforcement. I also have no idea what it was doing that far from his unit in the Caucasus.

Moto or Purtat means motorized.

Sid, the 7th Cavalry Division had 2,748 horses. Given the fact that it had only 436 carts and 2 regiments designated as motorized, I think we can safely assume it wasn't on foot.
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Pavel
Posted: September 12, 2005 07:12 pm
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Thanks! BTW, there are documents indicating it was Regimentul 15 Rosiori rather than 5... But AFAIR there were no 15 Rosiori ever created, but only the 15th Calarasi, so this version is somewhat confusing... or am wrong regarding 15 Rosiori?
Frankly, I think the theme of 3rd Army (including nearby German units) in November-January is quite inadequately portrayed in modern sources. F.ex. I have Axworthy, but despite posessing few interesting details, this source is extremely poor on documents and other primary sources. In other words I'm never sure if it's author's verbiage, or some real documented stuff I'm currently reading. So far we could never compare it with other sources (Soviet documents in particular), while we're unsure about his particular data origins...
Perhaps you could recommend any good Romanian (or Western) book for the subject, which is based on documents, and quotes documents?
And sorry for asking for too much over here sad.gif

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dragos
Posted: September 12, 2005 08:57 pm
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QUOTE (Victor @ Sep 12 2005, 04:31 PM)
Sid, the 7th Cavalry Division had 2,748 horses. Given the fact that it had only 436 carts and 2 regiments designated as motorized, I think we can safely assume it wasn't on foot.

It seems that the 7th Cavalry Division was literally on foot. The horses were taken away in January 1942 in the view of motorization, but the motorization was canceled and in November the division had neither horses nor trucks. The men of the 5th Rosiori Regiment had a joke: Regimentul 5 rosiori purtat... "cu vorbe" (the regiment is carryed ... on promises).
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dragos
Posted: September 12, 2005 09:14 pm
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CODE

Comandamentul Armatei 3
Stat Major

Ordin de zi pe armata nr. 6
din 3 iunie 1943

Apararea organizata de Armata 3 pe raul Cir dupa retragerea fortelor noastre de pe Don, s-a sprijinit indeosebi pe:
- Divizia 7 cavalerie (cu Regimentul 5 rosiori, Regimentul 11 calarasi, Regimentul 11 rosiori, Regimentul 5 artilerie calareata, Escadronul 7 tren, Escadronul 7 mecanizat, Escadronul 7 artilerie anticar si antiaeriana, Escadronul 7 mitraliere, Escadronul 7 pionieri, Escadronul 7 aruncatoare 120), comandata de colonelul Florea Gh. Munteanu si
- Divizia 14 Infanterie, improvizata din resturile unitatilor si formatiunilor scapate de pe Don, comandata de colonelul Radulescu Edgar.
Aceste divizii, puse sub ordinele Corpului 2 armata, comandat de generalul de corp de armata Nicolae Dascalescu, s-au batut eroic timp de 38 de zile si 38 de nopti (de la 22 noiembrie la 30 decembrie 1942), reusind sa opreasca si sa tina pe loc forte ruse de mai multe ori superioare.
Pentru atitudinea vitejeasca si pentru darzenia, sangele rece, spiritul de sacrificu si inaltul patriotism de care au dat dovada toti ostasii, de la soldat pana la general,
citez pe armata, atat cele 2 divizii cu unitatile lor cat si comandamentul corpului de armata, ca un exemplu de implinire a datoriei fata de patrie.
Prezentul ordin de zi va fi citit, sub arme, tuturor ostasilor Armatei 3.
Dat la postul de comanda al armatei, in Sahti, la 1 ianuarie 1943.

Comandantul Armatei 3,
General de armata Petre Dumitrescu

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Victor
Posted: September 13, 2005 02:02 pm
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QUOTE (dragos @ Sep 12 2005, 10:57 PM)
It seems that the 7th Cavalry Division was literally on foot. The horses were taken away in January 1942 in the view of motorization, but the motorization was canceled and in November the division had neither horses nor trucks. The men of the 5th Rosiori Regiment had a joke: Regimentul 5 rosiori purtat... "cu vorbe" (the regiment is carryed ... on promises).

So I see it's again a matter of sources. Armata Romana in al doilea razboi mondial (1941-1945) - Dictionar Enciclopedic by Alesandru Dutu, Florica Dobre, Leonida Loghin, Editura Enciclopedica, 1999 mentions the number of horses I posted earlier after March 1942. Where did you get the info?
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dragos
Posted: September 13, 2005 03:47 pm
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The source is Veteranii pe drumul onoarei şi jertfei - De la Stalingrad la bătălia Moldovei, ANVR, Bucureşti, Editura "Vasile Cârlova" 1997.

It is in the testimony of Colonel r. Alexandru Niculescu, on the front captain in the general staff of 5th Rosiori Regiment, 7th Cavalry Division.

Also on p.33 it is mentioned that the 7th Cavalry Division (on foot) was deployed in the reserve of the (3rd) Army at Blinovski, Pronin.
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Pavel
Posted: September 13, 2005 06:02 pm
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Thank you very much!!

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sid guttridge
Posted: September 14, 2005 09:50 am
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Hi Guys,

My impression was that all three motorised cavalry regiments served in 4th Army and/or the Caucasus during the second half of 1942 and 3rd Army had none of them. Is this correct?

Cheers,

Sid.
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