Airplane crashes - Black sea

Hello list,

I will ask if somebody can help me with information about airplane crashes in the Black sea.
type, pilot - crew members, crash date, locations, photo's etc etc.

I'm from Holland and went to Romania to settle here. So the Romanian History is for me new and unknown. In Holland i was Secretary of the Foundation Airwar Studygroup Groningen - Drenthe 1940-45, so if somebody needs info about that subject i can help, we escavated more than 200 wreck sites.

If somebody can give me a URL were i can find information about Romanian and Rusian airplanes should also be great.
Sorry that on the moment i only ask instead of giving some information.

Many thanks...

Take a look at the thread P.23 in ARR down over Black Sea. Maybe you will find some interesting information.

There are an IAR 80 and a PZL near the Mamaia airfield.Not far from the shore.
I belive Cantacuzino can give you details.

Thanks till now for the reactions, realy great.
How i can contact Cantacuzino?

I found also some info about a (i think sovjet plane?) DB-3F who crashed in sea near Vii beach, maybe someone know more about this one?
Crash date 28 Sept 1943.

Hello, do you plan to investigate plane crashes only over the sea?

Hey, what i see here? Some paces from dreams to reallity?

Wellcome U260diver!

Iama

Hello Cipiamon,

Lets say, that the investigation in Romania is new for me. I start at the end of the year dive activities in the Constanta area so the Black sea is a fresh exploring area for me. But im also interested in land investigations.

I'm more interested in the documentation part, like exact crash places, the exact info about planes and crews, underwater filming, etc.

Collecting materials is also great but my experience is that al these things need also space to store (i mean to display that everybody can see it) and not to store in a living room or something like that.

A nice detail, in Holland we found a Rolls Roys Fulture Engine (from a Manchester bomber) in whole the world are just 3 still excisting. All 3 are crash engines.

Maybe an idea to start a Group in the future?

Thanks for your reaction..

Hello U260 and welcome to Romania ! I think you will get along fine with Cipiamon, he is the one amongst us searching for crash sites and infos about those crashes you should talk more with him. BTW: what city do you live in now ?

Hi Iama & D13-th,

Thanks for the welcome, great to figure out how many people are interested in this part of history.

On the moment im in Holland but over a 3 weeks im in Romania to prepare my permanent move to Constanta, and as i say, start with dive activities.

I was first thinking to concentrate on Operation Tidalwave (Ploiesti) but i see that many persons are already busy with it. So better to start with Black sea and Constanta area.

So every information about this is very welcome..

That sounds great. In my opinion a good place to start your activities and that area it would be lake Siutghiol. Is situated at the north of Constanta, verry close. Is streching along Mamaia region, durring the war it was a base for hydroplanes. As i heard there are planes at the bottom of the lake, howevwer i can't asure you something is still there. In these situations a must it would be fisherman's sonnar, unfortunetly i don't have one... If you can find a sonnar is easy to "see" the bottom.

Dan Melinte (aka "Cantacuziono" on this forum) is maby the bigest ww2 aviation expert from Romania, we went in many expedions at many crash sites, most of them from the Tydal Wave, we found out many intresting informations, we took interviews whit the witnesess, did aerial photos of the crash area, however we did not "dig" anything : (
In Romania the use of metal detectors is banned, we didn't even had one, but we could trick the authorities by using it in non-populated areas...
Another advantage in Romania is that the most of the elders are verry open to give you information and woul let you dig theyr ground for 1-200 euros, that in the worst case.

This post has been edited by cipiamon on September 14, 2005 10:23 am

Another interesting place to dive is the wreck of the Soviet destroyer "Moskva", off Constanta. It was sunk either by a mine (the most probable version) or by a coastal battery or by the Romanian destroyers.

The wreck is visible on the sonars of the fishing boats, so you can try and ask the fishermen in Constanta for an exact location.

And maybe, if you dive there, you can solve the mistery and tell us for sure what sunk the ship.

Thanks for the info about the Soviet destroyer "Moskva" , in time i will try to find the location and make dives on it, i will than also make underwater footage. In time i will tell it on this forum and when people are interested in it i can put it on dvd and send. And should be great to find the reason of sinking.

Great to hear about the Hydroplane base at lacul Siutghiol, i know the lacul and was there many times but had no idea about this part.

Sad to hear about the detector rules, i have one also GPS but unfortunatly no fish finder. The intension is to have in time my own boat including all the equipment so we will see.

Again many thanks for all the positive reactions and hope to get more and more information...

The IAR-80A no. 149 of the 52nd Fighter Squadron, flown by adj. stg. av. Ioan Fenesan, fell on 7 May 1943 at 2 km off the coast from the Mamaia airfield.

You have here a discussion on the Mamaia airfield with sattelite maps. You can also try to find out how much the sea advanced in that area since 1943 to add to the 2 km.

Good luck.

I am not so sure about the advance of sea... there is a well known photo of the old Mamaia, many children using a "topogan". Last year while at beach in Mamaia i started wondering about the location of that "topogan", after a few moments i realized i was stending right next to it Is a ruin, is constructed on the "dig" in Mamaia.
I took pictures, when i get home ill try to find them. But i know in the water are somme "stabilopozi..." allthow it showld be a big diference on the shore in the area where weren't any stabilos.. and is not. Is no diference in the pictures from satelite.

This post has been edited by cipiamon on September 16, 2005 06:48 pm

Cipiamon and Victor thanks for the info.

Helps me a lot to get a more complete picture about the wrecks. In time i will start to search for them. The first 2 will be the IAR80 and the Moskva.

Cipiamon, I hope that you will post the Photo's what you made in Mamaia, should be interesting too.

Again thx.