ATMOS( wheeled spa)vs tracked armored spa

As i've read Romania has started an ambitious programe to modernize(larom ugrade for the ex grad (apra)) or change her old artillery park(mainly towed guns/howitzers from the 60-70s era ) with the new spa system of israely design named atmos.My concern is that even if this system is extremly mobile due to the fact is a wheeled not a tracked spa system,has a high firing rate(3 rounds in 20 seconds so 9 rounds in 1 minute) and is transportable in medium transport aircraft like the c-130 is still vulnerable to counterbattery fire,mines and infatry attack due to the fact it hasnt any type of armor(even the czeh/slovak dana/szuzana system or the safrican g-6 has armor) .What would be in your oppinion the best choice wheled spa or tracked armoured spa?

I am hardly the Great Authority on artillery, but I like what I have seen about the ATMOS. While there are situations where armored artillery is useful, your main defense against counterbattery fire is (1) destroying the enemy artillery first, or (2) moving quickly after you fire. The ATMOS has a real advantage doing (2) compared to any tracked vehicle (and it has no disadvantage doing (1))

If your artillery is at risk of infantry attack, you're probably using it wrong. Either that, or you need better site defense. And if it comes to site defense for artillery, your best defense is a good offense... don't depend on your armor, lower that barrel and give that infantry a chance to die for its country.

If it's at risk from mines, again, you're almost certainly using it wrong. Doing a recon before you displace is always a good idea. Tracked SPG's aren't immune from mines either. And wheeled vehicles are much less maintenance intensive and easier to get back on the road (assuming you're not dead).

From what I've read (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/atmos/ for example) the ATMOS does have armor against blast/fragmentation on the cab.

I'm also not sure about your extrapolation from 3 rounds/20 seconds to 9 rounds/minute. The page I referenced gives a sustained ROF of 70 rounds/hour.

Having said all that, I would still buy the G6

This post has been edited by Jeff_S on September 14, 2005 10:12 pm

Try to hide the Atmos from a smerch system that fires first an uav(conceiled in a rocket) for 30 minutes aerial surveillance and then launches some rockets fitted with bazalt antitank top attack submunition.But hey no even th classical trackedspa has a chance vs the smerch(bigger firing range,higher rate of fire,deadlier ammunition).

Apple with oranges dude...
Well the direct competitor of Smersh is MLRS ...which can kill the Smersh...

You assume that russians actualy produce the Bazalt... they usually did produce tests and some publicity papers... nothing more ... the Russian army still has older tech since they have no money..

The Romanian Army system is ATROM and is the same system as ATMOS mounted on a DAC truck...

Any tracked SPA don't have the armour of the tank... the armour that they have is barrely protecting from the Infantery weapon fire or to splinter damage to a certain extent..
cheers

Ukraine has around 100 smerch systems.That would be the artillery force that the atmos would have to counter.The smerch is a rocket artillery system and is used for counter battery fire.Before starting a reply you hsould read the posts before.My statement was that this system has no change if it engages in artillery clashes with enemy mrls wich has a range more than 40 kms.Even the Larom cant really match the smerch.

I did not say the atmos is a mlrs.All ive said is that this atmos system would have to counter also rocket artillery such as the smerch if something goes worng between Ukraine and Romania.Romania has in this moment no tbms,mrls or any kind of artillery to counter the smerch(maybe those frog-7 wich is in store could counter it due to its range but given the fact his accuracy isnt very good they couldnt do that).

We do have the LAROM .. That fire IMI 160 mm rocket at 40-50 Km.

Neither Ukrain have many Smerch. Ukraine army is in more bad shape than you think... Russians took almost all good stuff with them when they retreat .

http://www.mil.gov.ua/index.php?lang=en&pa...ent&sub=sv_rszv official site of the Ukrainian Mod.That says all about your info >Before you make a statement be sure that you have proves to back it up.

Welcome carlos23air2004!

You spend some time thinking about what is the cost of the MLRS, Smersh, and this new romanian - israely system?

Your topic title is ATMOS (wheeled spa) vs tracked armored spa. Nice one. Here are a lot of words to be writed. Wheeled vehicles are more mobile then tracked ones - russians in ww2 posses a variant of SPA 76 m.m. in two variants - one on the T-60 chassis and one wheeled. They were much happy with the wheeled variant.

Look, at army-technology.com, at the HIMARS - even USA developed a wheeled unprotected vechicle to carry her multi-tube launcher. Even them, who had MLRS tracked and with some light protection. Ok, i know, HIMARS have some advantages vs ATMOS/ATROM. Even so, HIMARS cannot survive against a counter battery bombardament from a Smersh. So, why USA developed this system and not stayed with combat proved MLRS? Let's forget the new tech. capability of the HIMARS and speake about wheeled/tracked method. Why? Because even USA troops in a classichal large scale war can be surprised in an ambush, where no one (HIMARS and MLRS) can survive to Smersh. And, a HIMARS is cheaper then his launcher mounted on the chasis of MLRS and is more mobile.

Some other things are in Jeff's post.

But, if we are ... naives, why France had CAESAR system?

We still have FROG-7? They were not been disasembled yet? I do a mistake, or Romania trow his SCUDs and FROGs after a treathy (?) ?

When things will be bad between Ukraine and Romania, we will be helped by NATO. This is the deal, when you have allies, no?

And, for your question

i will say "pro" for both ATMOS/ATROM and... G-6! But this is a dream... like another one, to have at the tracked vechicle the Tunguska and BMP-3 (instead of underarmed MLI).

You do not expect from Romania to develop/buy some AS-90 or equivalent?...

Iama

I am not going to argue with you... I didn't said that they don't have .. I said "Neither Ukrain have many Smerch".

Iama .. still nobody beat a Gerald Bull Gun design G-6 is that 155mm Bull design on the wheeled chassy ...

MLI which one? the old one or the modernised one ...?

This post has been edited by tomcat1974 on September 15, 2005 01:08 pm

well 100 (actually 95) smerches are pretty much not to mention in the Kalynivka - located within 2 km of the nearby village, it houses 188 tons of ammunition, including missiles for the Smerch [Spout] and Urahan [Hurricane] volley fire systems with a dispersion range of 70 km(this i got from a newspaper article) and in anotehr location they have like f..ing 70,000 tons of ammunition.

I agree that the us mrls can counter the smerch but only when firing the atacm.in his classicla 30km rocket cnfig it has no chnace in countering it(we are talking here in a 1 on 1 engangement not in a real conflict,a comparison between to equivalent systems supposed to engage eahc otehr).

Should i tell you that in war 1 to 1 doens't happend?

underarmed MLI" well doesnt the mli have a ows-25 turret with a kba gun designed by oerlikon contraves and 2 at-3 saggers atms(or a spike lr launcher).I wouldnt say its underarmed ,it has a decent firepower and given to the potential conflict romania would have to be engaged in with his neighbours ukraine or hungary(even this is innimaginable in the current geopolitical situation) with his 25mm cannon vs all types of afvs in the region(maybe the bmp 3 has some limited protection against 25 mm apfs-ds rounds but the classical russian bmp-1,2 ,bmd-1,2 and the btr hasnt decent armor ) and its sagger can penetrate 720 mm or armor behind era tiles wich cna disable most of the t 55s,t62s and t-72 s in teh region( the t-72 ahs only 280 mm of armor thickness on teh turret).the opnly rela problem would be to counetr ukraines t-80,t-84s if those are fitted with shtora systems for the spike lr.Bu the sagger has an advantage in being wire guided and s o it cnat be jammed at all but thats a double edged problem given teh fact that the mli would have to stay in a fixed position to engage its target.

ap round for 25 mm not apfs-ds sorry.My mistake.