Horthy - war criminal ?

A history mistake.For many romanians(and for others),was a war criminal,compared with Hitler or Mussolini.

O.K., Radu.
Let's see then, in your opinion why wasn't Horthy tried as a war criminal, once he was already at Nuremberg?

Gen. Dénes

I think many bad things happend from both sides of the war.

Denes, let's see what's the excuse for invading Yugoslavia.

Does Horthy qualifies for crimes against peace?

This topic is pointless. The answer was already given over 50 years ago, when Horthy was not indicted by the Nuremberg Trial, as they didn't have any charges against him.

Now, if you wanted to find out "why do you think Horthy was a war criminal?", it's totally different...

As for the initial question, FYI, Horthy refused Hitler's offer to joint the attack against Yugoslavia on April 6, 1941 (similar to Antonescu, BTW).
Hungarian troops crossed the former Yugoslav borders only when Yugoslavia de facto ceased to exist.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on September 16, 2005 07:04 pm

The massacres commited by Horthy's armies against Romanians are enough to qualify him as a war criminal. He also deported Jews, although on a small scale.

That's your opinion, I believe. Apparently, those in charge right after the war thought differently.

Hungary was an occupied country by then. The Jews were deported on Berlin's orders.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on September 16, 2005 07:09 pm

You mean your opinion is that these massacres didn't make him a war criminal?

And Horthy also deported Jews, before the Germans occupied Hungary. On a small scale but he did.

That's not my opinion. It's those ones', who were in charge right after the war.

BTW, I am not aware Horthy being asked to be extradicted by Rumania or any other country (including Israel).

Can you be more specific?

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on September 16, 2005 07:17 pm

You dodged the question. What is your opinion?

Some details about the crimes against the Jews.

"Three anti-Semitic laws completed the exclusion of the Hungarian Jews between 1938 and 1941. The first two laws made their economic situation more and more difficult; the Third Jewish Law, which was passed in 1941, however, was a real, Nuremberg-type, racial law introducing "race-protective" orders.

In July and August of 1941 nearly 16,000 Jews regarded as aliens or whose citizenship was stated to be unresolved, were deported to territories under German rule in Galicia where the Germans massacred them in the vicinity of Kamenec-Podolskij."

"In January 1942 in the Southern region (Délvidék, which was reclaimed from Yugoslavia) during an action taken against Serb partisans Hungarian gendarmeries murdered nearly 3,500 people. There were about 800 Jews among them. The gendarmeries shot their victims and threw their bodies into holes blown in the ice of the frozen-over Danube. Evidently, in order to frighten the civilians, they also hanged people in the public squares as we can see in the pictures."



Source: www.holocaust-history.org

Your examples don't fit the original claim.

First, those Jews deported to Galicia in 1941 were staying in Hungary illegally and were returned where they come from. Then they were killed by the Germans - as your quote clearly says - not by Hungarians.

Second, the well-publicized Újvidék (Novi Sad) executions were directed not against Jews, but generally partisans and, unfortunately, local civilians, as reprisal for many sabotages and sniping. Among the civilians executed were Jews, too.
The officers resonsible for those tragic events were prosecuted by Horthy's administration. Some were jailed, some escaped justice, seeking refuge in Germany instead.

Here is an excerpt from a book manuscript, which will hopefully help you understand better the events (if you're interested in it at all):

Any other 'proofs' up in your sleeve?

Gen. Dénes

If he wasnt found guilty at Nuremberg, he wasnt a war criminal.

As long as you continue to dodge my question, i have nothing more to add.

I am the last one to speak for Horthy,but I say this : if he wasn't found war criminal by a recognized/legitimate court then he isn't a war criminal.