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> “All terrain” commandment and liaison vehicles in, What types, models and how many of them?
Kepi
Posted: October 05, 2005 04:29 pm
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QUOTE (Dénes @ Oct 5 2005, 02:18 AM)
And, finally, here is an early post-war shot, with a Willys Jeep in Rumanian Army service. The uniforms are already Soviet style...

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Gen. Dénes

The photo seems to be made between 1948, when the new communist M.1948 uniforms were adopted and 1951, when the first type of cap badge was replaced by the Soviet style five pointed star. The officer, on the right side of the vehicle, is a Lieutenant and had specific M.1948 shoulder boards, that would be replaced in 1952, by fully the Soviet style.
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Victor
Posted: October 05, 2005 04:46 pm
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QUOTE (Kepi @ Oct 5 2005, 06:27 PM)
Tatra 93 C and R were 6WD vehicles.

Right. I forgot about that.
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Bill Murray
Posted: October 05, 2005 07:25 pm
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Kepi:
Your ID is spot on ( the smaller car was also made by BMW) but I think the wooden tyres are "transport tyres" which were used in the factory and in workshops to move vehicles around when the forces were in short supply of rubber tyres.
Railroad "wheels" would have had flanges which I do not see in this photo but I have seen many pictures of a variety of vehicles aequipped with flanged wheels for use on the railroads.
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Agarici
Posted: October 07, 2005 07:54 am
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QUOTE (Kepi @ Oct 4 2005, 12:03 PM)

On 22nd June 1941 the Romanian army had 186 6x6 command vehicles: “Tatra 93 C” (command) and  “Tatra 93R” (reconnaissance).

It seems that from 1942, 360 “Horch 901” and 200  “Stoewer R.200”,  4x4 command vehicles were bought from Germany.

As small field cars, Romanian army used “Volkswagen (KdF) 82” and “Mercedes Benz 170V”, 4x2 vehicles.

A lot of civilian cars were also used as command vehicles. The most important types were: “Ford Taunus”,  “Ford 60 C.P”, “Ford 85 C.P”, “Praga Lady”, “Praga Alfa”.

(Mark Axworthy, Cornel Scafes, Cristian Craciunoiu, Third Axis, Forth Ally, Arms and Armour, 1995, and Autovehiculele in Armata Romana, Editura Militara, Bucuresti, 1991)


Kepi, thanks a lot for your documented answer. However, I don’t know how complete the info from those books was since in 1940-1941 there was at least another model of command/liaison vehicle in use - the French Laffly, in the 2nd Tank regiment.

Now does anybody have any technical data and/or photos about/with Tatra 93C and Tatra 93R? In what year did they enter in service? What about TempoG1200, CKD or Stoewer R.200 field cars, any additional info?

This post has been edited by Agarici on October 07, 2005 08:08 am
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Kepi
Posted: October 07, 2005 11:28 am
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QUOTE (Agarici @ Oct 7 2005, 07:54 AM)
QUOTE (Kepi @ Oct 4 2005, 12:03 PM)

On 22nd June 1941 the Romanian army had 186 6x6 command vehicles: “Tatra 93 C” (command) and  “Tatra 93R” (reconnaissance).

It seems that from 1942, 360 “Horch 901” and 200  “Stoewer R.200”,  4x4 command vehicles were bought from Germany.

As small field cars, Romanian army used “Volkswagen (KdF) 82” and “Mercedes Benz 170V”, 4x2 vehicles.

A lot of civilian cars were also used as command vehicles. The most important types were: “Ford Taunus”,  “Ford 60 C.P”, “Ford 85 C.P”, “Praga Lady”, “Praga Alfa”.

(Mark Axworthy, Cornel Scafes, Cristian Craciunoiu, Third Axis, Forth Ally, Arms and Armour, 1995, and Autovehiculele in Armata Romana, Editura Militara, Bucuresti, 1991)


Kepi, thanks a lot for your documented answer. However, I don’t know how complete the info from those books was since in 1940-1941 there was at least another model of command/liaison vehicle in use - the French Laffly, in the 2nd Tank regiment.

Now does anybody have any technical data and/or photos about/with Tatra 93C and Tatra 93R? In what year did they enter in service? What about TempoG1200, CKD or Stoewer R.200 field cars, any additional info?

Of course there were many other models of command cars in the Romanian army but in my list I only mentioned the most frequent types.

All Tatra 93 heavy convertible cars (C and R) types, known also as “Rumanien-Typ”, had, 6x6, V-8-cyl., 65/75 HP, 4F1Rx2, wb 3270 kgs, Tyres 600x20. Aircooled 3980 cc (80x99 mm) engine. It was produced during 1937-40, in 1940 also with full length soft-top body. Tatra 93 Rs were a little bit longer than the 93 C models, had a platform, and could tow a 2 tons trailer or gun. Tatra 93 C and R were ordered in 1937.

Also see:
http://www.autogallery.org.ru/m/tatra93.htm

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Agarici
Posted: October 07, 2005 02:39 pm
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Thanks a lot for the accurate info and for your time, Kepi. Some data about Stoewer R.200, Tempo G1200 or CKD, anybody?

I assume that the model from the photos above is Tatra 93C, the recon version being the 6 wheeled truck from the webpage indicated by Kepi. Is that right?

This post has been edited by Agarici on October 08, 2005 07:49 am
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Carol I
Posted: October 07, 2005 07:57 pm
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QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ Oct 3 2005, 05:06 AM)
Kubelwagen in romanian service . Picture courtesy D.M.
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What does the 'I' on the registration plate stand for?
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Kepi
Posted: October 09, 2005 05:56 am
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QUOTE (Carol I @ Oct 7 2005, 07:57 PM)
QUOTE (Cantacuzino @ Oct 3 2005, 05:06 AM)
Kubelwagen in romanian service . Picture courtesy D.M.
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What does the 'I' on the registration plate stand for?

The Romanian army vehicles registered plates were white and had a number preceded by cipher “0”. In front of the number was the initial of the MoD State Subsecretariates: “U” for the Ground Forces (“U” – “Uscat”), “A” for the Air Force (“A” – “Aer”), “M” for the Navy (“M” – “Marina”) and “I” for the Logistic (“I” – “Inzestrare”). The plates were white, rectangular and had black ciphers 8 cm high and 12 mm wide.
This system was abolished at the end of 1940s when all military vehicles carried “A” (from “Armata”) in front of the registered numbers.

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dragos
Posted: October 09, 2005 07:45 am
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QUOTE (Kepi @ Oct 9 2005, 08:56 AM)
This system was abolished at the end of 1940s when all military vehicles carried “A” (from “Armata”) in front of the registered numbers.

But from the photographs the tanks still retained the U letter in the registration plates after 1940. Was this measure applied to road vehicles only? Was it reintoduced later (as seen in the post-war photo of the Jeep)?

This post has been edited by dragos on October 09, 2005 07:47 am
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Carol I
Posted: October 09, 2005 08:25 am
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QUOTE (Kepi @ Oct 9 2005, 06:56 AM)
The Romanian army vehicles registered plates were white and had a number preceded by cipher “0”. In front of the number was the initial of the MoD State Subsecretariates: “U” for the Ground Forces (“U” – “Uscat”), “A” for the Air Force (“A” – “Aer”), “M” for the Navy (“M” – “Marina”) and “I” for the Logistic (“I” – “Inzestrare”). The plates were white, rectangular and had black ciphers 8 cm high and 12 mm wide.

Thanks for the reply.
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Victor
Posted: October 09, 2005 09:05 am
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QUOTE (dragos @ Oct 9 2005, 09:45 AM)
But from the photographs the tanks still retained the U letter in the registration plates after 1940. Was this measure applied to road vehicles only? Was it reintoduced later (as seen in the post-war photo of the Jeep)?

The "A" registration numbers were introduced after the war.
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Kepi
Posted: October 09, 2005 09:09 am
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QUOTE (dragos @ Oct 9 2005, 07:45 AM)
QUOTE (Kepi @ Oct 9 2005, 08:56 AM)
This system was abolished at the end of 1940s when all military vehicles carried “A” (from “Armata”) in front of the registered numbers.

But from the photographs the tanks still retained the U letter in the registration plates after 1940. Was this measure applied to road vehicles only? Was it reintoduced later (as seen in the post-war photo of the Jeep)?

The system was compulsory for road vehicles but, you’re right, some AFVs also carried painted registration numbers. However, I think these were exceptions as AFVs had combat identification numbers.
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Victor
Posted: October 09, 2005 09:27 am
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QUOTE (Kepi @ Oct 9 2005, 11:09 AM)
The system was compulsory for road vehicles but, you’re right, some AFVs also carried painted registration numbers. However, I think these were exceptions as AFVs had combat identification numbers.

Actually most (if not all) of the AFVs had registration numbers.
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mabadesc
Posted: October 10, 2005 12:46 am
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Could someone please confirm or identify the cars and the officers below (except for the Horch 901)?

#1. Type of car. By the way, note the dimmer slits installed on the headlights for front conditions. Also, who is the officer (general de brigada) standing on the right.

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#2. Same car as #1. I think it's a Buick but I don't remember exactly.


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#3. Based on the stories my grandmother used to tell me, this should be a Polski Fiat, but please confirm as it may be a different car.


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#4. On the right (with the kid standing on it), the Horch 901 with its top down. On the left, though, what type of car is that?


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#5. Same as car in #1, with the Horch behind it. Correct?


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#6. The Horch 901. But who is the Colonel on the right and the General smoking in the background?


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#7. Horch, but please identify the officers in the group except for Avramescu.


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#8. Please identify both cars, and the general (I think) on the right. Thanks for your help!


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This post has been edited by mabadesc on October 10, 2005 01:08 am
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Bill Murray
Posted: October 10, 2005 05:01 am
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Good Morning Mabadesc:
I cannot help with the officers, but the vehicles are as follows.
1939 Buick
Fiat or Polski Fiat, hard to tell which
1938 Ford
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Bill
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