Romanian Royal Aeronautics - correct or not?

http://www.worldwar2.ro/media/?article=364

Here is a comment introduced by Mr. Dan Antoniu recently. Basicly it states that the "Aeronautica Regala Romana" (Romanian Royal Aeronautics) was never the official designation of the Romanian air force during WWII. It may mean that I will have a lot of work to do modifying articles on the website.

Translation:

With due respect, I disagree with the comments.
I researched this topic for long time and it was I who introduced it in my writings after considerable lamentation and pondering.

If you check out, for example, the pre-1947 issues of Monitorul Oficial (The Official Monitor) - where the Rumanian State's all laws were published, thus what has been published in it was the law - issues easily accesible to everyone in Rumania, you can clearly see many times the military aviation being referred to as Aeronautica, Aeronautica Regala, or - when put in parallel with the Luftwaffe, for example, thus using the complete official name - Aeronautica Regala Romana. I abbreviated the term as ARR, for quicker reference.
The same term is used counless times in original wartime documents as well.

Wrong. Aeroclubul Regal Roman was actually spelled as Aero-Clubul Regal Roman, thus the abbreviation was ACRR [as comparison, see the current abbreviation of the Autoclubul Roman, which is ACR, not AR, in order to keep the tradition (i.e. Auto-Clubul Roman)].

Finally, I would be interested to learn what is the counter-proposal for the military aviation's official full name, as the so far vehiculated Fortele Aeriene Regale Romane (FARR) is clearly wrong (FARR was actually the abbreviation of Federatia Aeronautica Regala Romana).

Gen. Dénes

P.S. Even the ARR's main unit, Corpul Aerian Roman, has been also formally referred to by its official, complete name as Corpul Aerian Regal Roman.

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 21, 2005 10:27 pm

While I leave the aviation history to more qualified and dedicated members, in order to settle this issue once and for all, I propose to put on display as many official documents as possible that shows how the Romanian airforce during WW2 was designated.

My problem with showing official documents is that I could order photocopies of only a few original documents (the copies were rather expensive and not everything was available for copying) Instead I wrote the information I was interested in in my notebook.
Now I assume there will be certain people who won't accept my hand written notes as proof. Therefore I ask someone, who has access to the pre-1946 issues of Monitorul Oficial to veryfy my notes, either with a photocopy, or as a neutral witness.

Here are a few excerpts from my notes:
"Unspecified issue of February 1941: Administratia Comerciala a Stabilimentelor Industriale ale Aeronauticii si Marinei Regale" (it indicates that the Navy had also had the Royal appelation).
"Issue of 4 June 1941: Semnele distinctive al personalului navigant din Aeronautica Regala Romana".
"Issue of 23 November 1943: unspecified decoration decree for Adj. stag. av. Craciun Stoica, mentioning Aeronautica Regala Romana".

I can post more, if needed.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 22, 2005 12:30 am

I could find photocopies taken from various issues of Monitorul Oficial :



This indicates that Aeronautica Regala Romana was used in W.W. 1, too:


Excerpt denoting the offical usage of Aeronautica Regala Romana prior to the war against the USSR:

Note: this document also proves that F.A.R.R. actually stood for Federatia Aeronautica Regala Romana and not Fortele Aeriene Regale Romane, or Fortele Aeriene Regale ale Romaniei - as it has been erroneously published many times, in Rumania and abroad.

I can look for more similar documents, if needed.

Caveat. Let me point it out, that if occurences appear where only Aeronautica Regala, or simply Aeronautica, or Aer. is mentioned, it merely means that the full title was abbreviated for space restrictions.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 22, 2005 12:31 am

Thanks Denes. This is pretty solid evidence.

Also, C-2, why don't you call Dicezare and ask him about this?

That would be interesting, indeed. However, personally I would trust original period documents, rather than personal recollections after 60+ years.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 22, 2005 12:47 am

Finally, I could find a rather poor photocopy taken from Monitorul Official issued in April or August (the month is blurry) 1946.
Sorry for the quality, but that's all I have (the document was copied during Ceausescu's times, with extremely poor copier & paper).

This document also proves continuity in the term's usage from W.W. 1 to shortly after the war (while Rumania was still a Kingdom).



Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 22, 2005 01:21 am

Hi Guys,

In my youth English language publications called it "FARR".

In the last decade or so this has been reduced to "ARR".

Now we have a proposition that it should be "AR".

At this rate, the Romanian Air Force is going to disappear altogether!

Cheers,

A worried Sid.

I'll do it on Sunday.

Hi!
In all the years spent in archives,I hane not find a single oficial paper with that heading ARR.And incould not be,because Romanian Aeronautic was subordonated to the War Ministerium,and this was not Royal.Romanian Army was Royal RA?

There were branches of service bearing the “Royal” name. By the Royal Decree nr. 4063 of 15th December 1931, the Romanian War Navy was named “The Royal Navy”. It bore this name until December 1947.
At the end of 1930s, in some official documents concerning the changing of uniforms, the Romanian air force was named “Aeronautica Regala” (Royal Decree nr 2797 of 5th August 1938 about the white covers for caps on summer, Royal Decree nr. 2140 of 22 may 1939 about the rank of Commodore, Royal Decree nr. 1841 of 3rd may 1939 about the NCOs waist belt).

Additionally, for example, there was the law describing the badges of the airmen of the Rumanian military aviation, as mentioned before, published in Monitorul Oficial. It clearly spells out the official name of the said military branch:

Let me point out again that what has been published in Monitorul Oficial was the Law.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 24, 2005 02:13 pm

That's a good one!

The same concern here. Or we should do the German way, build a single composite word, Aeronauticaregalaromana... (and it's not even in a Romanian language dialect, Sid ).

Seriously now, I think Denes is right, and his version seems to be well documented.

Agarici from A(eronauticaregalaromana)

Victor,

If it's true that "Aeronautica Regala Romana" ( ARR) was never the official designation in WWII, what are the other alternatives (ofcourse based on official documents).

Do you (or anyone else) have references ( oficial documents) with other designations like " Fortele Aeriene Regale Romane" ( FARR) or Aeronautica Romana (AR)?

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on October 25, 2005 08:56 am