Fighter Ace Greceanu test-flew the Messerschmitt 262 Jet!

[C-2]

Mr.Craciunoiu,
Gunther Rall ,said in an interview,that it took him 2 weeks of training in order to fly the 262.
To start the engines it was a hard lesson to learn.The pilot needed bouth hands and another pair(of a mechanic or other pilot) in order to start the engines.
To taxi the airplane it was also very hard to do,and an instructor used to seat on the left wing to help the pilot because the reactors would heat very quickly.
After take of the instructed pilot was in radio contact with the instructor.
If going fron an IAR 80 to a 109 was necesary a quiet long trainind there's no need to say how was it from a 109 to a 262.

[inahurry]

"All of the project pilots (except Strobell) were given brief orientation flights in the two seater on the 9th of June. Most of the records pertaining to the equipment found on the field had been destroyed or otherwise lost. Since so little was known about the history of the engines and similarly critical components, this was the only formal flight training they dared to undertake.

Aside from what they had managed to pick up while operating the ground trainer or practicing blind cockpit drills, the pilots were basically on their own. Most of the men would have to experience their first solo flights in the Me 262 on the extended cross-country flight to France."


So, it's possible to fly it without extensive training. 8 American pilots who never flew a German aircraft before and with only 1 flight in the 2 seater Me-262 the day before the takeoff. Maybe a little seed of craziness is needed but then you could never find a test pilot if no one accepts to take the risk.

[Victor]

The problem is that none of the Romanian pilots there did not confirm this story.

Btw, were these American pilots test pilots or just plain fighter pilots?

[C-2]

IN his book ,Greceanu said it was a single seat aircraft and he recieved from a German pilot some instructions and then flew.
I wonder if he spoke German...
The Americans flew the 2 seat aircraft and were TEST PILOTS maybee already flew a jet aircraft before.
A test pilot is a total dif.thing than a normal pilot,even if he's an ace!
And most German pilots who flew the 262 in "Komando Nowotny"were the cream of the Luftw.Even E.Hartmann didn't find it easy and prefered to return to his 109 at Jg 52.
And if you didn't read my other post,other ARR pilots who were with him in Austria said it didn't happened and there is no way Greceanu could just dissapear fly and come back as nothing had happened.
But if you all want to creeat a mith or a legend,it's OK by me.
My final post of this subject!

[inahurry]

QUOTE

Btw, were these American pilots test pilots or just plain fighter pilots?

I don't know for sure but I'd say they weren't test pilots judging from this paragraph:

"Watson's pride in his team was justified, and in a dispatch to USSTAF headquarters that evening, he recommended that the team be transferred intact to the stateside flight test effort at Wright Field."

Looks like their CO wanted their professionalism to be rewarded.

[Der Maresal]

QUOTE

After take of the instructed pilot was in  radio contact with the instructor. If going fron an IAR 80 to a 109 was necesary a quiet long trainind there's no need to say how was it from a 109 to a 262.

Learning to fly this Jet for combat is a totally different thing that learning to fly it for a short test flight. There were Americans who flew this Jet too, I saw it on Color Film. A 262 painted with the American star, landed (more like crashed) on an airfield somewhere in Arizona.

The plane's pitch was too low, and the Fragile Nose Wheel broke off, and sparks started to fly in every direction. This was after the war, when these Jets were brought for testing in the US.

* Also, the Germans always do more lecture then they do flying, - they train their pilots to a Very Very High Standard. I know however that Americans get bored in the classroom and want to "jump in it and drive", I'm sure that's what happened when that hotshot crashlanded this plane without realizing how fragile the long nose wheel was.

Also, training a fresh Pilot (a novice) to fly a Me-262, takes a whole lot more, many weaks or months... But a Pilot who flew before, an Ace for Example like Adolf Galland, or Johannes "Macki" Steiner or Walter Novotny who were aces with more than 100 each... they.. they learn much faster. I don't think it took them weaks to fly the plane, and I'm sure for the American Pilots who test flew these Jets after the war, it was certainly not weaks... not even days... Hours !

this is a picture from 1945, with one of these Jets hidden in a forest and found by the allies. The other image is of a Me-262 Two- Seater, it was used as a trainer, to train new pilots for the Me262
Read the article that's attached here, it describes how one flyes it.
http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/articles/w...wilde_sau_3.asp

[inahurry]

Well, "creating a legend" - not sure what purpose would serve. Some of C-2's very "definitive" statements didn't convince me when compared with the ones I posted before. For now, I'm inclined to consider a succesfull flight with the Me-262 was doable for an experienced pilot. If Greceanu did it or not I have no idea. I doubt Allies would have rejected a "fool" who wanted to risk his life. Apparently they were in a bit of hurry to transfer as many planes they could to US. It is not so surprising if one considers the technological race between US and USSR. If the Romanian offered himself as guinea pig, why not, what did they have to lose - at most a Me-262.

[C-2]

I know I said I wont say more on that subject but here are two more things:
The first is that Greceanu did not spoke German,and unles the German pilot spoke Romanian......
The second is that on that meeting were sent two ARR pilots:Milu and Greceanu .
The 109G made in Romania was presented by Milu.
If there was some ARR pilot to fly the 262 it was Milu who also was the better pilot!.And he spoke German!
I wrote almost everything from what I heard from a close friend of Milu and a WW 2 vet.
If Greceanu had fown the 262 MIlu must have known because they were together all time.They were the only Romanians on that air show and exept of the time they spent at the wc they were together all time.
Greceanu was a guy who liked to be popular-how you imagine yourself that he was the first non German to fly a jet and not to tell anyone?????!!!!!.
No newspapers NOTHING ?????
Milu's friend after spending some time in jail he was among the first Romanian pilots who flew Mig 15,before excluded definitiv from the army.
He told me that is needed a few weeks of trining before a solo flight.
The Mig 15 was much more Civilized than the 262.
It's like driving a Porsche and one day just getting into a F 1 Ferrari and driving........exept that in our situation you are flying and if the fact that the pilot might be killed it could distroy a "very important piece of information".
And between us, there would be an American Russian British or other representative of a strong wining country to have this honor!

[inahurry]

This thread looks like 2 different universes intersecting. A bit too different.

[Florin]

Hi,

The posts here have arguments in both directions, so the reader eventually think what he/she likes.

All I have to say is: It would not be the first case when a Romanian pilot flies successfully a plane never tried/saw by him before. Remember that Bizu Cantacuzino returned from Italy in August 1944 in an American fighter, because one American pilot destroyed his Me 109 in a "take-off and fly" trial.
Well, I know - that American plane was a classical type.

I believe the guys who say that controlling a Me-262 was a difficult job. However, hundreds and hundreds of German pilots flew on it, so it was not an impossible job. Well, I also agree with people here saying that it is hard to learn in 2 days to fly a Me-262. But the "learner" was already an experienced pilot, unlike me or... you.

I think in "The Great Circus", written by Jean Pierre Clostermann in 1948, it was said that Me-262 needed 300 km/hour to take off.

Regards,
Florin

[Huck]

Hi,

I don't know if this story is true or not, but Me-262 was not a difficult plane to fly. Except the lengthy take-off and laborious landing it was easier to fly than a prop fighter. Hartmann and other aces stayed out of the whole project mainly because of the risks involved in flying a new airplane with a new type of powerplant in the most dangerous type of mission, Zerstorer. Fighter ace skills does not help in this situation. And by that time nobody thought that a different outcome of war was possible anymore. Nevertheless JG7 managed to gather an impressive number of aces.

You can read here about Watson's Whizzers first flight experience with Me-262:

http://www.stormbirds.com/squadron/mission/solo.htm

Check the entire site. It's a good read:

http://www.stormbirds.com/squadron/index.htm

[George]

The claim is not true.

[George]

From all the pilots there,just a romanian to fly an Me-262?
It is hard to believe that,because no romanian pilot or from other country ever mentioned this.I believe that the Me-262 was flown by a german pilot with only fuel to reach destination,and under american supervision.

[Bernard Miclescu]

Dear Florin,

I don't think that "the Great Circus" by Clostermann is a referential source of information. The book is read mostly like a roman. Only some informations are correct. I dare compare The Great circus with Sven Hassel's books for the exactitude of the informations.

Yours,
Bm

[Der Maresal]

I found the article about Greceanu and can post it here finally.
(believe it [or not] )


The titile on top says; "The first German Jet plane captured by the Americans was flown by a Romanian."

The one on the left states: "For his 37 air victories scored during the war, Aviator Teodor Greceanu was rewarded with 16 years of prison."

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