Fighter Ace Greceanu test-flew the Messerschmitt 262 Jet!

And I drove a F1 Ferrari,and won a Grand Prix :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:
No ARR veteran said it is true!
Greceanu did not spoke German.How did he comunicate with the German test pilot???? In Romanian??? :question: :question:
Greceanu was sentences to life ,because he killed a man in prison

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Greceanu was sentences to life ,because he killed a man in prison

21 December 1952, Aiud prison. Cpt Greceanu, cdr Spulbatu ex commander of the fighter flotilla (?) from Turda, and a philosophy student Sirianu tried to escape. Spulbatu and Sirianu killed with a hammer two prisoners (the besarabian Ivasciuc and Cdr Marcel Tautu ex commander of MIRCEA school ship which were working in a drying room) The three up named persons hide in there and cut off the prison electricity. When they jumped over the prison wall a guard heard them and alerted the security. Greceanu was found near the wall having a dislocated leg (picior luxat, lovit) The other two were taken by the Securitate after four respectively eight days after their escape. In march 1953 it was a trial and Sirianu and Spulbatu were condamned to death being executed in october same year. Greceanu was sentence to life only because HE TRIED TO ESCAPE WITH THE OTHER TWO; eventualy being released in 1964 after difficult years of prison.

Extract from the memoirs of Aurel Sergiu Marinescu "Prizonier in propia tara" vol III

C-2 you are a little bit harsh with Greceanu .

Bm

Those who know me,know that I'm doing a bit for the ARR and his veterans,but I don't like bed time stories and if someone wrote in some books this feritale I don't have to agree with him :evil:
I never met Greceanu,only talked on the phone with his sister.
His honor is in his place,and this story appeared on his last days,when he was sick and old.I don't have anything against him.The only thing that bothers me are some guys who are making from him a cloun by telling this story over and over again.

Let them talking, the first time that i read about it was from a Modelism magazine. Since then number of research were made and the aviation "specialits" aren't agree with it -- no testimonies. You know the word "multi vad putini cunosc".

Bm

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I never met Greceanu (...) His honor is in his place,and this story appeared on his last days,when he was sick and old.

I met Greceanu at his home. He was indeed very ill.

He told me, too, the story of his flight on the Me 262, but when I asked for details, he couldn't remember.

Dénes

Not to sound as a nitpicker, but are the extra 17 claims (he is usually credited with 20 kills) supported by his flight book at least?
My impression, after reading his book, wasn't the same for example after reading Ion Dobran's diary, which is much more objective.

When I talked to him, he mentioned quite a few victories he achieved on the so-called 'Western Front', i.e. against Axis airplanes, including Henschel Hs 126s and Focke-Wulf Fw 190s. Obviously, none of these are correct. His logbook neither gives any victory on the "Western front", nor mentions the supposed flight aboard the Me 262. I'm afraid it's yet another myth...

Dénes

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Greceanu was sentences to life ,because he killed a man in prison

"If you kill one man, you'r a murderer. If you kill 10,000 (or 37 ) you'r a hero."

8)

Hallo Gentlemen,

Interesting post, some real intersting points made. But, any thing done by the Americans at this "Airshow", would be well documented either by eyewitness accounts of the couple of hundred U.S. personel there, many no doubt with their own cameras, and by their own military film crews, so until the documentation turns up to prove it it has to be considered a "myth".

I doubt if any pilot would forget an experience like being in the ME262 (unless very ill with Altzimers.)

I also doubt that the Americans would be willing to let an ex-enemy combatant (who might have been responsible for shooting down American Bomber Crews over Romania) into such a sophisticated jet airplane, with hardley any knowledge of such a machine.
Seems unreal that Romanian were able to fly where they wanted under no escort of either Russian or US planes

On the other hand they had no problem recruiting nazi pilot Erich Hartmann with 352 victories to come play in their airforce (long) after the war.

Kevin in Deva

Well, romanians did fly at the airshow in their Bf109's, they didn't bring them there by train and they weren't escorted by russians or americans. Even more - those enemies of US (lol) fought and died in the air and on the ground against german forces..

One question: was Hartman a nazi ?

Hi Guys,

The whole story is inherently unlikely for a number of reasons well rehearsed above.

This being so, it is up to the proponents of the story to bring forward some substantive evidence, which they have yet to do.

As far as I am aware, the Germans themselves only considered allowing Italian pilots to fly the Me262 operationally. This was because the few remaining fighter pilots of the RSI air force were experienced hands of high quality, while the recent products of Germany's own training programme lacked experience. However, the possible conversion of the Italians was stopped by the end of the war.

Cheers,

Sid.

Funny,
There is a similar discussion going on the Cartula website at the moment. Just like here, there are a couple of "romantics" there that are willing to believe this story just because it is so "beautiful" .

This is a very dodgy story. It cannot be corroborated by any other witnesses, there is no documentary evidence and even more significanlty, there is no logic or sense to it. In 45, the 262 was the peak of aviation technology. The Americans were desperate to get as many of these planes in perfect shape to help them improve their own technology. There is no way they would leave such a precious plane in the hands of ANYONE, no matter who they were and how good. They had a team of carefully handpicked skilled pilots, technicians and evaluation specialists of their own.
Google "Operation Lusty" or "Watson's Whizzers".

Remember, in 45 a 262 was not surplus war booty in plenty of supply - it was hot property highly prized by everyone .

As an analogy, imagine this scenario:
The US somehow get their hands on the latest Chinese Chengdu J10, then they say: "Hey, anyone here that wants to fly this?" Out comes a Romanian pilot saying "Any good pilot can fly any plane!" The Americans say: "Mr. Heroman, we will get Chang to show you how to fly this - it will take just a few minutes and off you go." And then Cpt. Heroman flies off with this plane and brings it back. Then, sudenly, everyone else gets amensia. Credible? Yeah, rrrrright!

My two cents
Radu

PS. I just checked the name indexes of the 4 books "Me262" published by Classic Publications (includes the names of all pilots that ever flew the 262). The name Dickfeld (or Greceanu) does not show up anywhere. There is no record of a Me262 display flight in Vienna either.
They have a very comprehensive description of every aircraft (flyable or not) captured by the Americans. Guess what? Nope, no trace of this story.

Some people dont't believe this story because are "romantics" or the story is "beautiful", some believe it because it is written in a romanian fighther ace memories.And if we believ what Dobran say or other pilot in he'e book, i think is good to take this story as a probable fact.
Radub you sad thet Greceanu did not aper on a list with pilots how flew Me-262, also Henri Coanda don't aper on other "list" as the firt who invented the jet engine. So this is not a singular case when a romanian is not put on a "list".

Hi Horia,

Each book must be judged on its own merits. Just because one is plausible, it doesn't mean the other necessarily is.

I haven't read either book. However, it is clear that the Me262 story is inherently unlikely. The burden is therefore on the supporters of the story to produce substantive independent evidence to support it, not on their opponents to disprove it.

Cheers,

Sid.

Hallo D13-th_Mytzu

slightly off topic with regards the Me262 post but

The German Luftwaffe, (especialy the pilots) had the most hardcore Nazi mentality of the German Armed Forces next to the SS, most German pilots were party members and had gone through the Hitler Jugended Glider and Pilot schools pre 1936 - 38, many were trained in secret in Russia.

They had combat experience from bombing cities in the Spanish Civil War and inflicting hugh civilian casualties, they shot up crowded roads in Belgium and France without a second thought about the civilians they were machine gunning, they were the cutting edge of the new style Blitzkreig so if you wear the uniform of a Nazi Airforce then you are a Nazi.

In the early days they were drunk on Victory, nobody seemed capapble of stopping them, till they got a bloody nose during the Battle of Britain.

All too often pilots are given a dashing image, "Knights of the Air" those wonderful men in their flying machines, most of their killing was done at high speed and they had little time to reflect on the destruction that was caused by their actions.

And before anybody jumps in with a comment about the RAF and USAF who of course had pilots as well, their job was to smash the III Reich, and of course many civilians died too in Europe, but we have to remember who started the Second World War, certainly not the United Kingdon and the USA.


Kevin in Deva.