Maresal tank destroyer, development

The first prototype of Maresal, M 00, was tested at Suditi trial grounds on 30 July 1943. Hitler approved the development of the "Hetzer" project on 7 December 1943. During the same month Romania presented the Germans the blueprints of the M 04 prototype.

In May 1944, Lt.Col. Ventz, the delegate of Waffen Amt, declared that the Hetzer followed the Romanian solutions.

Doesn't this imply, however, that the Hetzer was already in existence while trials were barely being carried out for the Maresal?

The first protoype of Maresal was completed months before the project of Hetzer was approved (see above). However it is true and logical that it took longer to Romanians to put the Maresal into production than to Germans to start the production line for Hetzer.

This post has been edited by dragos on December 26, 2005 10:04 pm

In the report, "ein grosser hetzer" was translated as "un adversar suparator" (an annoying opponent) [for the Russians].

"Hetzer" was not an official name for the German vehicle anyway.

Comparison of the Stug III, Hetzer and Maresal, at the same scale.



This drawing was posted some time ago on http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php...aresal&start=15

Since I am hardly an expert in armour, I sent the question to one of the top experts of the topic, Dr. Charles Kliment, who authored several books on this very subject.
I will post his answer as soon as I'll receive it.

Gen. Dénes

Did Mr. Kliment ever study the Romanian archives?

I don't think so. However, he did study extensively the Czech and German archives. And he co-authored a book on the Hetzer, which should give him some credibility. But let's wait for his answer first.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 27, 2005 01:15 am

1000 tanks like that ... Wow!!! ( Source Steel Master )



This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 27, 2005 04:00 am

Here is the same picture that dragos has posted but of a better quality.



Suorce: "Trupele Blindate din armata romana 1919-1947" Cornel I. Scafes, Horia Vl. Serbanescu, Ioan I. Scafes.

This post has been edited by mihnea on December 27, 2005 02:20 pm

No MG on the Maresal????

There is one good reason not to put one in the Maresal: the two man crew had already many tasks: finding targets, aiming, loading, driving and others, so operating an MG was too much.

This post has been edited by mihnea on December 27, 2005 03:10 pm

Dragos03,

Quite possible, but in the report, the wording is "ein grosser Hetzer" - with capital H.

The phrase /un adversar suparator/ could be a personal comment added by the narrator, not a direct translation.

Also, isn't the statement incomplete?
"...vinatorul de care Maresal....va fi un agitator mai mare pentru rusi" (ein grosser Hetzer)
The comparison is missing - mai mare decit ce?

Could it be that Ventz and Haymann are talking about "ein grosser Hetzer", meaning - a larger version of the Hetzer?

It's quite possible that I'm missing something, but I don't know what.

This post has been edited by mabadesc on December 27, 2005 03:28 pm

Here is the answer I received from Mr. Kliment, regarding the 'Maresal' vs. the 'Hetzer':

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 27, 2005 03:57 pm

As i suspected from the start, Mr. Kliment's opinion is irrelevant in this case. Maybe you could tell him that the Germans recieved the plans of Maresal in December 1943 and that two officers from the Hetzer's design team saw a working prototype of Maresal before they completed the drawings for the German vehicle.

Anyway, i think this debate is pointless, since Ventz himself admitted later that they used some of Maresal's features in the Hetzer.

Denes, it is now clear that for Mr. Kliment the subject Maresal is pretty obscure given the inaccuracies he wrote*, but when he stated that he does not know of any direct contacts between the Romanian and German design teams it appears that he does not even had at hand the work "Third Axis Fourth Ally" by Mark Axworthy, a more credible source on this subject since the author documented with the help of Romanian historians and archives.


*) "The second accepted prototype M-05 was based on 38(t) chassis, and had the Renault tank engine and gear box"

M-05 chassis: Rogifer
Engine: Hotchkiss H-39
Gear box: Hotchkiss

"The BMM design team started working on the Hetzer in October 1943, at the same time the Romanian construction team started with the early M-01 - M-03 prototypes."

The Romanian technicians started the research on the to-be-called "Maresal" project in the end of 1942, and the M-00 prototype was ready for testing on 30 July 1943.