Me -109 questions, info needed

Mykyb,
I hope that you noticed the fact that I am not a follower of fashion.
Yes, it is fashionable nowadays to paint aircraft models as if they were dragged though muck, dropped in swamps, scratched by hooligans with keys, bleached by tropical sun (even in Russia), using poor fuel with badly tuned carburretors that cause gianormous exhaust stains, and to top it up - such planes seem unable to hold any liquid of any kind for too long. Oh yes, and they wear neatly blackened rivets all over!
I do not do that. As a matter of fact, I do things MY WAY. However, I respect anyone else's choice of model building and finishing. They do it THEIR WAY. Fine by me.

My models are weathered, they show wear and tear, leaks, chipped paint, dirt, etc. However, I keep all that to a minimum and subtle. It may not show up in photos, but it is there in real life, believe me.
For me, less is more.

By the way, your models are beautiful. Have you ever thought about entering competitions?

Radu

This was the reason that both ( Denes and me) suggested Miki to avoid modeling this Bf 109 "white seven". To many contradictions and unclear issue.

Winter cammo on a romanian Bf 109 is a nice wisdom for every modeler.

Yes Radu, you can say the light spot on" white seven" are white washable paint if you want that dream came through.

Last night i had a dream to built a Bf-109 model with bright colors. And now looking with a magnifier to "white seven" the light spots looks more close to pink color. Maybe my dream could also came through

Sorry Radu, for my bad joke.

I study romanian messerschmitts for many years. I have a lot of pictures with them. I made corrections to color profiles published im some well known magazines and books ( including your french reference TMA- Messerschmnitts roumaines).
I know i can make also mistakes and I accept corrections with clear and logical proof.

Sorry, but for this "white seven" I can not agree with your opinion ( winter cammo). Btw. I have better original high res. pictures with "white seven" not like the poor quality pictures published.

And I don't know why you sent Miki to us ( forum thread) if you had the right and final answer for him.

I don't know who start this crazy issue with winter cammo "white seven" Bf 109G.
I believe a polish magazine some years ago .

I remember that the same crazy issue was with Serbanescu Bf 109 G2 "white 1"
for many years believed to be "yellow 1" just because was first published in Modelism and in some polish sources colored like that.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 19, 2005 01:28 pm

Your questions should be asked to ex workers in ASAM who probably made the revisions to this romanian Messerschmits ( see the romanian stencil "Nu calca" on white 3). Do you think that workers were so inteligent to think like you or germans in terms of right cammo ?

In my opinion that light color spot were light grey or blue grey color.
But it's only my opinion and I could be wrong ( it could be also dirty white or pink ).

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 19, 2005 01:35 pm

The pictures in Otopeni and pictures in Mizil were taken at least 6 month apart ( from july- august '43 Mizil to february '44 Otopeni).

The planes from Mizil were used in Tidal Wave scramble on 1 august '43. So i can not find the reason (in hot summer) the white washable paint was present on any Bf 109 from 53sq.

This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 19, 2005 01:45 pm

Hi Cantacuzino,
I do not have the answer. For that reason, everywhere in my post I used the words "I believe that...". By a long shot, that does not mean "I know for a fact that..." or "you must all bow down in front of me for I am the bearer of the one true wisdom"!
In other words, it means "Eu cred ca..."

That was why I opened the subject - so that we can discuss it in more detail. I love a good fair argument.

That is also exactly the reason why I sent mykyb to this forum. I am not an expert and I never claimed to be one - I prefer this kind of discussion rather than make sweeping statements like "It must be so because I say so."

Anyway, to return to the subject of "white 7". Considering that you have the photos, knowledge and experience, can you please come up with a good and plausible description of the colours used on this plane based on the historical data available? I would definitely like to build a model of it.

Radu

Radu,

Have mercy. You asking to much from me. I don't have so much free time to check all the spots ( what color should be every spot) on this specific "white seven.
I can tell you ( in my opinion) that i believe this was originally standard RLM grey colors oversprayed with green patches and posible light grey or blue gray color patches .

Thanks, that is a start.
I think that the different colour of the light colour spots may have something to do with the density of the spray. Thicker spray is more oapque, so it appears brighter. A lighter spray is darker as it allows the colour underneath to show through.
HTH
Radu

Hi to all,
Thank you Cantacuzino for the profile,you convinced me.Indeed "yellow 9" is a nice one even if it will be difficult to do the "Hai fetito"but I hope I'll succeed whit it.Presently I'm working on a Spitfire Mk Vb served on Malta and right after I'm done whit it I'll start this one.Could you give me some advise regarding how do I have to make the paint job on the underside of the wings, because you gave me a link where I found a photo showing the underside of the wing of this a/c and I see both the Michael Cross and the roundels in the same time?Could you clear me up in this matter?Correct me if I'm wrong but do I have to paint the roundels first and than apply the Michael Cross ?I have to clear up some other things too.Was the spinner painted 3/4 black and 1/3 white ?How deep do I've to paint yellow from the wing tips,do you have any close up photo of the victory bars?I know that inside of the bars was written the date and place of the victory? The last thing about the data stencils,were they in German or Romanian after the a/c were repainted in dark green?
Cantacuzino,would you be so kind and help me to chose another G2 or G4 for my next G series,please?
Radu,
I hope I didn't upset you whit my post because I didn't want it ,if so,forgive me.You're a hell of the scratchbilder but I like the models to luck like they were used not brand new which is everybody choice ,keep up the good work and the posts.
Miki................

Hi Mykyb,
No upset caused. Thanks for the kind words.
Radu

Hi Miki,

I am glad that I convince you to do "yellow 9".
For 1/32 scale it will be more easy to paint ( by hand) the name "Hai Fetito" written on cowling. I have friends ( painters) who succeded such kind of task at 1/72 scale.

Originally this "yellow 9" was from the first batch of rom. E-mils received in 1940-41 and painted with roundells. Later ( before Barbarosa campaign) all rom. planes were repaint with Michel cross . During Stalingrad campaign probably because of hard winter condition (and bad quality paint) the underwing old roundells start to appears .

Yes the spinner was painted 3/4 black and 1/3 white.
The distance for yellow wing tips it's very clear in the picture (see attached).
The white victories bars on " Hai fetito" doesn't have written any data. Mostly E-mils have simple white ( ground) victories bars with no data.
All romanian E-mils were originally painted with the dark green ( german RLM) and probably with german stencils. After revisions done in IAR Brasov in '43 the survivors were repainted with olivgreen ( like "Yellow 64'") and used in '44 by 52sq .



This post has been edited by Cantacuzino on December 20, 2005 06:38 am

I will try to do my best

Hi Mykyb,
No upset caused. Thanks for the kind words.
Radu

Hi Radu,
I'm glad we understand each other!

Cantacuzino,
Your ma men,
I have no words to thank you.I really appreciate your help.About the 109 G6 you also helped me out posting the fabulous "Blue 10",I really like this art work of Mr.Melinte.Now I'm looking a G2 or G4.Could you give me some ideas about this109G.For ex:
Was the upper side of the wing tip painted in yellow too?
The paint it seems to me RLM 74/75/76.
The emblem of the 7th FG was it painted on both side or only the left one?
And the most important issue for me is what was the camouflage pattern style on the wings and stabilizer of this "Gustav".I'll post some for e.g.Maybe I'll be lucky.One more thing and I'm done.Could you magnify the Sqd. emblem cause it's the most beautiful G I've ever seen.
Thanks for this post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Miki.

Nr 2

Nr.3

Close up victories bars. Picture courtesy G-ral Dicezare Ioan