Body Armour

Does Romania produce its own body armour? Are all troops issued body armour, or are there the capabilities to do it?

You can discuss any other body armour related subjects here, if you wish.

I don’t know how the things are in theory, but apparently from a few years (some of) the troops use those items. I can tell you that when serving in the army (1997) the kevlar jackets were mentioned by the field manuals (as well as the new small caliber, NATO standard assault weapons), but I’ve never seen one. Tough a fellow who was transferred to my unit from FRR (Rapid Reaction Force) artillery told us that they were issued with kevlar helmets and jackets and with the new model AKMs; no big deal, he used to say about the jacket, just a few extra kilos to carry when marching…
We were still using the old 7,62 mm AKM. But since then I guess the things have changed…

This post has been edited by Agarici on February 14, 2006 06:05 pm

Sorry to post so late… but better later than never…

Yes, indeed, some things have changed…

A short mention…those mentioned in those field manuals were not NATO standard assault weapons… but the 5.45 assault rifle (NATO uses 5.56).

First, the AK’s… there are no more AK’s 47… instead Romanian Army is using today a domestic version of the AK 74 (more infos about it on NATO AK’s topic). These are not “new AKM”… it’s a similar but in many ways a different weapon.

About Romanian made body armour…
There are two types used by RoAr. :
- a lighter one, Kevlar helmet and Kevlar vest , protection level II (effective up to pistol bullets and metal splinters-used mainly by engineers, second line personnel, paratroopers, mountain troops, navy and some others), very similar, if not identical to the Israely one. Its weight is around 7 kilos (the body armour) plus 2.5 kilos for the helmet.
- a heavier one, standard NATO Kevlar helmet and domestic designed body armour. You could see it in photos with Romanian troops in Irak and Afganistan. The body armour is protection level IV (up to 7.62x51 mm bullet, the ammo used by Dragunov sniper rifle and PKM – the soviet light machine gun, used also by RoAr). Its total weight is close to 18 kilos (14 for the body armour and 4 for the helmet). The body armour could be wear in two modes: with the two Kevlar plates ( 36x30x2 – dimensions in cm, inserted in two pockets, on the front and the rear of the vest , in which case the weight is the one mentioned above) and without them, reducing its weight to 7 kilos (and, of course, its level of protection – to II ).
About the last one… it’s the body armour President Basescu (after one of his “trips” to Irak) mentioned being too heavy and unusable, in contrast to the one issued to Americans and other army forces in that area. What the public back home (and I wager Basescu also) didn’t now is the fact that the American body armour is level II… so, his claim that the Romanian soldier hasn’t got proper protection is (in my opinion) a wrong and not documented presumption.

… and some pictures… ( de second type mentioned in the previous post )

Someone knows something about body armor history in Romanian Army? When we received first body armor suites?

Iama

I second Iama's question. Also, what about some basic data concerning the history of body armour in other armies (US, British, French, former USSR). Is there a certain point in time (or military episode - Granada Invasion, Falklands War, Afghanistan in the 80's) since when it started to be used? What about the "kevlar helmets" (versus the steel ones)? Were those issued first to special forces? I've done some internet search for that, but I've found no references to a clear timeframe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flak_jacket
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletproof_vest
The US used body armour in the Korean War http://www.olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear...armor_korea.php
Body armour was used in the Vietnam War quite a lot.
Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on May 11, 2009 08:43 am

Thanks, Radu! I've browsed the mentioned sources myself but i have some doubts concerning their accuracy. I mean, when looking at all the military photos/movies I have acces to, I see no general/widespread use of buletproof vests (for the common infantryman) until the first Gulf War in 1991. If they existed before, why weren't they used on a large scale? Was it because they were too heavy or cumbersome (like that Soviet steel brestplates), or because their effectivness was only marginal? I does not make much sens.

However, thank you for the quick answer.

IMO, any bulletproof vest is not so effective because... it's a vest! It leaves the neck unprotected - and shoulders, too; if it's not paired with a helmet, it's almost useless in close range - if the enemy could aim at the head, that is!
It also depends very much of the caliber, type and distance of the firing weapon!

Agarici,
In WWII, the Flack Jacket was a feature of the USAF waistgunner.
http://www.liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/Ph...istGunner_T.jpg
This features in some WWII movies.

The bulletproof vest (Flack Jacket) is a very distinctive feature of the Vietnam War and features in most Vietnam movies. Browse here: http://www.starpulse.com/Movies/Full_Metal...ULLMETJACKPS02/
Here is possibly one of the most famous photo of the Vietnam War.
http://www.fromthefrontline.co.uk/blogs/me...ine/vietnam.jpg
Do a search for Vietnam photos and you will find a lot of them, especially helicopter crews who were issued with them as standard.
http://www.olive-drab.com/gallery/photos/h..._vietnam_sm.jpg

Radu

Well, does Romania produce armor-piercing ammo? Against the vests, that is

Of course they do!
"Body armour", as explained a couple of posts above, comes in different "grades". There is no body armour that can withstand every single type of ammunition, it may protect against some, but to paraphrase Qui Gon Jin, "there is always a bigger slug."
Radu

This post has been edited by Radub on May 12, 2009 09:59 pm

from the Gulf War was, compared in many respects with the common ww2 infantryman, much like a Starship trooper among the Romanian soldiers of the 1980's. The things evolved quite fast in the "Cold War"...