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zmoney |
Posted: January 23, 2006 08:10 am
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Soldat Group: Members Posts: 4 Member No.: 791 Joined: January 23, 2006 |
Hello, I am currently making a scenario for CMBB and was wondering what kind of armor and in what numbers the rusky's had in Bessarabia in August-41. From what I have read I assume that they had some BT-7's and T-26 tanks. I thought they might of had some T-34's as well but from reading about deferent Romanian battles taking place in 42 it seems that 42 was the first time Romanians ever encountered the T-34.
So if someone out there can give me a rough estimate on what the Russians had and in what numbers, that would be appreciated. |
D13-th_Mytzu |
Posted: January 23, 2006 08:42 am
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General de brigada Group: Members Posts: 1058 Member No.: 328 Joined: August 20, 2004 |
No T34 ni '41 in Basarbia as I recall. If you are interested in romanian armours, I recommend you read about it here:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/oob/?section=14 http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?section=19 |
zmoney |
Posted: January 23, 2006 03:30 pm
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Soldat Group: Members Posts: 4 Member No.: 791 Joined: January 23, 2006 |
Thanks, but I have been scrounging this site on Romanian armor for weeks already. I just need to know what the Romanians were up against. Like what armor the Russians had in this area and in what numbers.
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dragos03 |
Posted: January 23, 2006 03:54 pm
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Capitan Group: Members Posts: 641 Member No.: 163 Joined: December 13, 2003 |
They didn't have T-34 but i think they had a number of heavy tanks (T-28 and KVs).
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Victor |
Posted: January 23, 2006 05:19 pm
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
The 2nd Mechanized Corps had 517 tanks on 22 June 1941, of which 10 were KV-1 heavy tanks and 50 were T-34 medium tanks, all grouped in the 11th Tank Division. The rest of that division's equipment were T-26 light tanks. The 16th Tank and the 15th Motorized Divisions were equipped BT-5 and BT-7 light tanks. The 18th Mechanized Corps was in a worse situation. It had only 282 tanks . The 44th and 47th Tank Divisions had only T-26s and the 218th Motorized Division had no tanks at all. On paper, this was a considerable force, but the Soviets were also plagued by problems with the equipment, especially the divisions of the 18th Mechanized Corps, which were formed about the same time as the Romanian 1st Armored Division.
The two mechanized corps were pulled out of Bessarbia and engaged in the battle of Uman. There were no major engagements with Romanian forces. |
zmoney |
Posted: January 24, 2006 01:55 am
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Soldat Group: Members Posts: 4 Member No.: 791 Joined: January 23, 2006 |
Thanks for your informative reply Victor. So what I gathered in your statements is that Romanian armor and Soviet armor never met? Did the Soviets have any armor in Bessarabia at the time of the retaking in August? This post has been edited by zmoney on January 24, 2006 01:55 am |
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Victor |
Posted: January 24, 2006 07:07 am
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
They met, on several occasions, but the Soviets were never more than company strength. By the time Stavka decided to keep Bessarabia and ordered Tiulenev to retake it around mid-month in July, I believe that most of the armor has already retreated East of the Dnestr.
The biggest engagement between Romanian and Soviet tanks was on 5 July 1941 at Bratuseni. Soviet armor from the 2nd Mechanized Corps counterattacked the positions of the German 203rd Infantry Regiment and took Hill258 near bratuseni. The Germans called for the intervention of the Romanian tanks. Their report mentioned 40-50 tanks enemy, which undoubtedly was an exagerrated figure. The 1st Armored Division engaged the 1st Battalion/1sttank Regiment, supported by two artillery battalions and one AT company, which pounded the hill as the 46 R-2s advanced on it. The Soviets were forced to abandon the position they took. Two heavy tanks remained knocked out on the field (so it was possibly the 11th Tank Division, which was the only one equipped with such tanks), while the Romanians lost one tank, due to friendly fire. |
sid guttridge |
Posted: January 26, 2006 12:03 pm
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Locotenent colonel Group: Members Posts: 862 Member No.: 591 Joined: May 19, 2005 |
Hi victor,
The article on Romanian armour in Slavic Military Studies mentions this issue. It points out that while English-language publications, such as "Third Axis, Fourth Ally", have picked up on the large deployment of Soviet tanks in Basarabia immediately before the war, they have not detected that most of them were transferred out of Basarabia north to face the Germans attacking from Poland before the Romanians attacked. This said, even Soviet rifle divisions had integral light tank units at the outbreak of war, so the absence of higher Soviet tank formations did not mean there was an absence of Soviet tanks. I believe there is a photo of one of the knocked out Soviet heavy tanks, possibly a T-28. Have you seen it? There is also a photo of a Romanian R-35 towing an abandoned Soviet BT light tank in "Third Axis, Fourth Ally". Add these to the photo of a captured T-26 photo already on Feldgrau and one probably has a good cross section of the types of Soviet armour in the theatre. Cheers, Sid. |
Victor |
Posted: January 26, 2006 07:50 pm
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
Glantz mentiuons the 18th Mechanized Corps as arriving too late to take part in the fighting on 10-14 July between the German 6th Army and the 31st Rifle, 9th, 19th and 22nd Mechanized Corps, which were trying to rescue the 7th Rifle Corps encircled onm the Sluch River. He also mentions that Stavka ordered Tiulenev to deploy the 2nd Mechanized Corps in the Uman region on 17 July. This means that the corps were already on the other side of the Dnestr at those dates.
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dragos |
Posted: January 26, 2006 10:04 pm
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 2397 Member No.: 2 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
I have seen a photo of Romanian soldiers examining a disabled T-28 heavy tank, many years ago, at the history museum in Buzau. There is also a propaganda footage with Romanian soldiers igniting a T-28 tank here: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...findpost&p=4432 The picture about the R-35 towing the BT-2 tank is this: http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=53§ion=19&article=237 |
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Victor |
Posted: January 31, 2006 06:57 am
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Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
Also, the 2nd Cavalry Corps had 129 BT-5 tanks. Each of its divisions had a tank regiment in its organization and apparently they were at full strength. I suspect these were the Soviet armored forces which saw most of the action in Bessarabia in 1941 after the 2nd and 18th Mechanized Corps were pulled out.
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