Romanian Army in the Second World War · Forum Guidelines | Help Search Members Calendar |
Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register ) | Resend Validation Email |
Pages: (2) [1] 2 ( Go to first unread post ) |
Carol I |
Posted: February 13, 2006 08:01 pm
|
General de armata Group: Members Posts: 2250 Member No.: 136 Joined: November 06, 2003 |
14 June 1914 - During the visit of the Russian Czar to Romania, King Carol I was wearing a marshal baton. Was he the first Marshal in the Romanian Army?
Source: National Centre for Cinematography |
Carol I |
Posted: February 13, 2006 08:04 pm
|
General de armata Group: Members Posts: 2250 Member No.: 136 Joined: November 06, 2003 |
14 June 1914 - One more image of King Carol I wearing the marshal baton.
Source: National Centre for Cinematography |
Carol I |
Posted: February 13, 2006 08:17 pm
|
||
General de armata Group: Members Posts: 2250 Member No.: 136 Joined: November 06, 2003 |
There is also a fragment in the recollections of General Alexandru Socec, commander of the 5th Territorial Command in Constanţa who was the local official responsible for the safety of the Russian visit to Romania:
Source: Magazin istoric |
||
Agarici |
Posted: February 13, 2006 09:34 pm
|
||
Maior Group: Members Posts: 745 Member No.: 522 Joined: February 24, 2005 |
Apparently he was, taking into consideration your information; very interesting contribution, Carol I. I wonder, wasn’t this high rank granted to him according to some formal traditions regarding the heads of state, or the heads of state with a certain status (monarchs, a certain age)? In the end, the king was the head of the army, so who could have awarded him this rank? |
||
dragos03 |
Posted: February 13, 2006 09:42 pm
|
Capitan Group: Members Posts: 641 Member No.: 163 Joined: December 13, 2003 |
Maybe he was an onorific marshall of the German Army?
|
Dénes |
Posted: February 13, 2006 09:42 pm
|
||
Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4368 Member No.: 4 Joined: June 17, 2003 |
I assume so, as King Michael I. was also a Marshal (before Ion Antonescu). His award was published in a 1940 issue of Monitorul Oficial. Gen. Dénes |
||
dragos03 |
Posted: February 13, 2006 09:54 pm
|
Capitan Group: Members Posts: 641 Member No.: 163 Joined: December 13, 2003 |
Yes, he was a German Field Marshall, he received this rank on 20 April 1909.
|
Victor |
Posted: February 14, 2006 07:00 am
|
Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
King Carol I was also a marshal of the Russian Empire. I suspect he is holding the Russian marshal baton in this film.
|
Carol I |
Posted: February 14, 2006 08:26 am
|
||
General de armata Group: Members Posts: 2250 Member No.: 136 Joined: November 06, 2003 |
Was he a marshal of other armies as well (beside the Russian one mentioned by Victor)? |
||
Carol I |
Posted: February 14, 2006 08:30 am
|
||
General de armata Group: Members Posts: 2250 Member No.: 136 Joined: November 06, 2003 |
This makes more sense than having a German baton with a Russian uniform. Do you have the details as to when and how did Carol I become a marshal of the Russian Empire? Was it when he became Colonel-in-Chief of the Russian 18th Vologda Regiment? |
||
Carol I |
Posted: February 14, 2006 08:32 am
|
General de armata Group: Members Posts: 2250 Member No.: 136 Joined: November 06, 2003 |
Thank you all for the replies. They bring more light onto an area previously unknown to me.
The question raised by Agarici and Dénes remains: Was the Romanian monarch automatically a marshal of the Romanian army or not? If yes, when was this introduced? Was there any special ceremony for accession to the rank or was it automatically implied by the accession to the throne? |
Victor |
Posted: February 14, 2006 10:28 am
|
||
Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4350 Member No.: 3 Joined: February 11, 2003 |
In the biography of marshal Alexandru Averescu, col. Petre Otu states that during the visit in Romania between 9 - 12 December 1912 (dates are according to the Gregorian callendar, adopted after WW1), the Russian delegation led by the Grand Duke Nikolai Mikhailovich brought King Carol I the marshal baton. |
||
Carol I |
Posted: February 14, 2006 10:33 am
|
||
General de armata Group: Members Posts: 2250 Member No.: 136 Joined: November 06, 2003 |
Thanks Victor for the update. So, this far we have Carol I German marshal on 20 April 1909 and Russian marshal in December 1912 (the precise date is unknown). |
||
Kepi |
Posted: February 14, 2006 01:19 pm
|
Sublocotenent Group: Members Posts: 432 Member No.: 680 Joined: September 28, 2005 |
It seems that King Carol I was appointed Marshall of Russian Empire in 1912. As it was written here, he was already Field Marshall of Prussian Army in 1909, when he celebrated his 70th anniversary.
King Ferdinand I became Marshall of Romanian army on 1st of December 1918. The parliament instituted the dignity of Marshall of the Romanian army for those high officers who commanded an army in the war. It seems that two other officers were designated to receive this highest rank, one of them was Army-Corps General Eremia Grigorescu, who was very much in favour of the court clique. Finally this project failed and King Ferdinand remained the unique Marshall of the Romanian army. On 29th September 1930, during the autumn maneuvers King Carol II was appointed Marshall, and a few days later, he promoted Army-Corps Generals Averescu and Presan to this highest rank. On 25th September 1933, King Alexander I of Yugoslavia became Marshall of the Romanian army. On 10th May 1941 King Michael I and on 22nd August 1941 Army General Ion Antonescu also got the rank of Marshall. This post has been edited by Kepi on February 14, 2006 01:20 pm |
Carol I |
Posted: February 14, 2006 08:15 pm
|
General de armata Group: Members Posts: 2250 Member No.: 136 Joined: November 06, 2003 |
Thank you Kepi for the informed reply and for the details of the history of the marshal rank in the Romanian army.
I have however a question of a technical nature. According to the Romanian constitution, it was the king who conferred the military ranks. So, who conferred the marshal rank to Ferdinand on 1 December 1918, Carol II in September or October 1930 and Michael on 10 May 1941? Were they self-conferring the rank? If not, was that not a breach of the constitution if a military rank was conferred by someone else than the king? And another question. If the marshal rank was reserved "for those high officers who commanded an army in the war", wasn't it a breach of the law to confer the rank to Carol II in 1930 and to Mihai in May 1941? Both these awards were destined to people who although commanders of the army by nature of their job, at the date of the award they have not commanded the army in war. |
Pages: (2) [1] 2 |