Romanian FW 190 F with "Brasov cammo", FW 190 F in rom. service spring 1945

OT. I would not compare Wikipedia to reference books. They are simply not in the same league.

Wikipedia is a huge collection of various statements based on random references, created collectively, thus it sinks to the average level accepted by the people editing the topic. If a false statement corrected by someone is disliked by somebody else (possibly by the previous person), the correction is simply reversed. So starts the nonsense editing/reverting war.

I would immediately discredit any book or article referring to Wikipedia as amateurish and unreliable.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 10, 2011 09:50 am

Actually, most entries in Wikipedia quote a source, often a publication in print. You can easily check the "trail" of edits and amendments. Malicious and facetious "contributions" that do not rely on a reference tend to be weeded out slowly. More often than not, the information is correct. You must consider that it is still in its infancy and it will take many decades before it reaches "maturity".

There is nothing wrong withg being an "amateur". To some extent or another, we are all "amateurs" and often "professionals" tend to be inflexible and vainglorious. I am sure you met "respected Romanian historians" that come out with obviously wrong statements.

One can successfully argue that Leonardo da Vinci was not professionally trained in any of the areas he excelled in. Mendel was a priest. Einstein was simply a clerk working for a patents office. The Wright Brothers were not "aeronautical engineers". Darwin was not a "professional biologist" when he wrote his Origin of the Species. All were "amateurs". Sometimes knowledge comes from people without pompous titles.

I have a "Dictionar Enciclopedic" published during communist times by a "comittee of learned people" that contains a whole lot more rubbish than Wikipedia. Unlike Wikipedia, that cannot be corrected as easily. THAT ease of correction is where Wikipedia has the "edge".

Radu

Radu, there is a clear difference between being an amateur and being amateurish. While the former is not negative, showing merely the profession or (lack of) formal education of an idividual dealing with a prticular topic, the latter has a clear negative conotation. Even professionals can be amateurish.

The fact that the sentences are linked to a published source does not replace the need for a clear guidance of a writer (and not dozens of "forumites"), or a scholarly overview of a certain topic.

Enough of this OT. Let's return to the much more interesting main topic, ARR Fw 190s. Anything to add here, anyone?

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on December 10, 2011 12:47 pm

This is just for fun, from a war-game :
http://asisbiz.com/il2/Fw-190A/Fw-190F-RRA...a-1944-V0A.html

Nice one.

Just a small comment on the inconsistency of the artist.
If the Balkenkreuz on the fuselage was overpainted in white, why weren't the wing Balkenkreuze shown as overpainted the same way?

Gen. Dénes

Actually, when we studied the photograph scanned at a high resolution, it was not possible to say whether the wings had white sashes under the crosses. In fact, the wing markings are not clear at all. It is also evident that the white segment on the fuselage was actually not a "square patch" but rather a sash wrapping around the fuselage like a band. The photo is in Dan Melinte and TLM's book.
HTH
Radu

OK, so that preposition I quoted from Wikipedia
"The Royal Romanian Air Force received from Germany a number of Fw 190 A-8s used for defensive purposes in metropolitan areas."
has to be cut out of there. I smelled rotten there, but I wanted to read your opinions.
This is an incentive to learn what it takes to become a Wikipedia member...
At their homepage you can read "anyone can edit" .
There are many things there that can be updated.
Under "Flying Car", Glenn Curtiss is mentioned as the first to design and build a flying car. I remind that Train Vuia named his creation from 1906 a "flying car" and accordingly the wings of his airplane were foldable to behave like a car on the street.
The authors of "Dragostea din Tei" have their names misspelled, under the page dedicated to song "Live Your Life" who actually took the best part from "Dragostea din Tei".

While you'll find countless Jurca airplanes, you'll not find "Marcel Jurca" as search target, because a guy with Anglo-American name completely deleted his profile - God knows why.

This post has been edited by Florin on December 10, 2011 03:06 pm

Russian Magazine "Voina v vozduhe" (War in the air) nr. 80-81,
"Focke Wulf FW-190 A/F/G" part 2 :
Fw-190 in service in Hungary and Romania
According to German intelligence, after August 23, 1944 Romania had a pair of Fw-190, captured from the German units. Although the aircraft had not been taken into service, they received the Romanian markings and were used for training pilots until 1945. Later the planes were confiscated by the Soviet Union, in accordance with the peace treaty between the USSR and Romania.

This post has been edited by Petre on December 10, 2011 08:23 pm

I had deleted that wrong information - i.e. "The Royal Romanian Air Force received from Germany a number of Fw 190 A-8s used for defensive purposes in metropolitan areas."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_190
Considering how easy is for anybody to change there, it is a wonder that the Wikipedia articles are reasonably accurate, at least for a search start.

This post has been edited by Florin on December 11, 2011 04:38 am

The information remained in the russian version, also found in polish version :
Romania received two copies of A version for the purpose of familiarization.
But I still wonder how correct is this :
Romania interned 22 (?) Fw 190 F-8s, ... using them for operations (?) against German forces.
Had Romania pilots well trained to fly and fight on that plane ? Maybe Bazu...

This post has been edited by Petre on December 11, 2011 09:42 am

The FW190 was not difficult to fly for a pilot with enough experience of German equipment. The Romanian pilots were familiar with the Bf.109 that shared a lot of standardised equipent with the FW190 such as controls, instruments, warning systems. All German instruments were colour coded and any pilot would know instantly which gauge told what measurement (yellow for fuel, red-brown for oil, green for coolant, blue for air, red for fire controls). Rudder pedals/brakes were standard. Throttle and propeller pitch controls were standard. Control stick was standard. In some ways, the FW190 was easier to fly than the Bf.109 because it was air-cooled and the pilot did not need to constantly monitor the coolant temperature. It also had a wider landing gear that was more forgiving during take-off and landing.

The bigger problem was spare parts and maintenance. The FW190 was bit more complex than the Bf.109, and increased complexity means increased number of parts that can fail and need to be replaced.

Radu

Regarding the preposition you quote from Wikipedia, I did not touch it when I did my little edit, because I am not sure about it - many people know more than me about these matters.
Regarding "Had Romania pilots well trained to fly and fight on that plane ? Maybe Bazu...", I consider it a mild slap over face toward the ARR (Royal Romanian Aeronautics). I agree with what "Radub" wrote in the post above.

This post has been edited by Florin on December 11, 2011 04:21 pm

This was not my intention at all. Probably because I have no idea how to fly. Clearly, I must apologize to ARR.
It was the influence of the story of the veteran (Gen. rez.) C.Dragomir, who did not return from Germany with Fw-190, but remained there as POW until the end of the war. Although they were experienced pilots, they began training on some school aircraft, for the first with basic maneuvers...

This post has been edited by Petre on December 11, 2011 06:51 pm

Great news!

In Wikipedia/FW-190, the initial sentence: "The Royal Romanian Air Force received from Germany a number of Fw 190 A-8s used for defensive purposes in metropolitan areas." was inserted back, deleting my "The Royal Romanian Air Force did not receive Fw-190 while Romania was an Axis Ally."
I am wondering what source or reference is the main author using.

This post has been edited by Florin on December 12, 2011 02:12 am

I edited it. THat text about FW190 in Romania before August 1944 was removed
Radu