Red Army in Romania - August 1944

[dragos]

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Well, What about the opinion that Romania should have continued their alliance with Germany instead of siding with  :twisted:

The result would have been a country devastated by war, a harsh Soviet occupation regime, and probably the loss of Transylvania as well.

[salo]

Geto-Dagul wrote

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Finns did finnaly loose the recaptured territories of 1941. But what's really important, is that their country was not occupied by the Red Army. And this is not really because they did not invade \"Soviet territory\" (BTW, the Soviets considered \"Soviet\" territory everything captured until June 22 1941), but because Finland was not included in the Churchill-Roosevelt-Stalin gambling of Moscow, Teheran, Casablanca, Yalta or Postdam. This is what I think. I am wayting the invectives  :D  :lol: !

Actually Finns did occupy pre-1939 Soviet territory in Eastern Karelia. Finns occupied (liberated) almost all the area inhabitated by the ethnic Finns (or Karelians) reaching to the lake Ääninen (Onega) and the town of Äänislinna (Petrozadovsk).

But it is true that Finland was never occupied by the Red Army and the question is why. We don't know really. The Red Army was stopped cold on Tali-Ihantala Battle on June 1944 and the Russian advance was stopped later on Viborg Bay with huge Russian losses. Simultaneously Stalin had let the Germans do his dirty work in Poland destroying the Warsaw uprising and was getting busy reaching Berlin before the Western Allies. So he had not enough troops to spare destroying the small Northern republic. He obviously thought that he can do it later.

The Finns did turn their weapons on Germans later in 1944 and early 1945 in the War of Lapland when the remaining German troops were driven off the country. The Germans retaliated by burning nearly every house and building in Lapland. The civilian population was however spared because they were evacuated to Sweden (thanks to the marvelous effort of the Swedes).

Finland never became a communist country either. The communists were a strong political power and still in the eighties aiming for a "revolution" (actually the current president Tarja Halonen and foreign minister Erkki Tuomioja were among those and very active in trying to make Finland a Soviet Republic!) and a Sovietification of Finland but the semi-dictator-president Kekkonen and the first truly patriotic president since 1956, Mauno Koivisto were able to defend Finland. Thanks to them, Finland remained independent and the Finns avoided the horrors that f.ex. the Estonians had to suffer in the hands of Russians.

[^All^]

allanteo667 I agree with your opinion about the Red Army. There's a word in Romanian: nu este padure fara uscaturi (there isn't any forest whitout dead vegetations, it means that there isn't an aplle tree whitout rotten apples). The Germans had their own "rotten apples", but on the other side the reds army was made up almost by "rotten apples". En fin....I think that Romania made its bigest mistake on 23-rd august 1944. I admire the hungarian people, some of their units fought 'til the capitulation of the Third Reich, that's until 9 may 1945. Why couldn't we, the Romanians do such a thing?

[johnny_bi]

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I think that Romania made its bigest mistake on 23-rd august 1944. I admire the hungarian people, some of their units fought 'til the capitulation of the Third Reich, that's until 9 may 1945. Why couldn't we, the Romanians do such a thing?

The Hungarians fought until the end because there was no political power in Hungary able to do such changing side... Horthy tried to make such a move and you know what happened to him and Hungary...

[^All^]

I guees....I've heard on tv that a ukrainian unit continued the fight against the SU even after the Romanian 23-aug '44 pact. What do you coment on that?

[mabadesc]

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I guees....I've heard on tv that a ukrainian unit continued the fight against the SU even after the Romanian 23-aug '44 pact. What do you coment on that?

Apparently when the Germans first entered SU territory and marched to the East, they encountered quite a few villages in Russia, Ukraine, Crimea, which welcomed them as liberators. Among these, some men volunteered to fight alongside the German troops.
Some happened to be people of german origin displaced in the Ukraine, while others were just happy to fight against communism (the tatars in Crimea).

It's an interesting subject, unfortunately, I don't know much more about it. Maybe others with more in-depth knowledge on this subject can post some more information.
Thanks for bringing up the topic, though...

[Victor]

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I guees....I've heard on tv that a ukrainian unit continued the fight against the SU even after the Romanian 23-aug '44 pact. What do you coment on that?

Are you refering to the anti-Communist partisan activity in the Ukraine after the war, similar to the situation in Romania, or to the Vlasov army which continued to fight after the German surrender until 12 May 1945?

[^All^]

K I will be more explicit. In a tv show (I guess I saw it on ProPatria at TVR1) there was a man who said that after the fall of the Antonescu regim some of the population fled from the russians to the west. Among them was this man. Acompanying them were German soldiers cut off from their comrades and a unite composed of ukraines. On their march to the west from a cornfeld some russians opened fire on the crowd. The ukraines opened fire with a machinegun and after a few minutes the cornfeld was cut short above the ground with the reds along.

[Dénes]

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German soldiers cut off from their comrades and a unite composed of ukraines.

Those were UPA soldiers, i.e. anti-Communist Ukrainians.

IIRC, Cornel Marandiuc mentions these Ukrainians while retreating through Moldavia in late August 1944 in his magnificent book, 'Inimi cit sa cuprinda cerul patriei'.

Col. Dénes

[^All^]

Thanks for your help. I'm also wondering, were there any Romanian independent units that continued the war on the Axis side? If I had lived then I would have continued the war fighting sholder by sholder with the Germans :smg: , against the russian front not against the Romanian one.

[Victor]

No Romanian army units comitted acts of treason. However, from volunteers, the Germans could raise several Romanian Waffen SS Regiments (see here: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44)

[Dénes]

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QUOTE I think that Romania made its bigest mistake on 23-rd august 1944. I admire the hungarian people, some of their units fought 'til the capitulation of the Third Reich, that's until 9 may 1945. Why couldn't we, the Romanians do such a thing? The Hungarians fought until the end because there was no political power in Hungary able to do such changing side... Horthy tried to make such a move and you know what happened to him and Hungary...

What you wrote, Johnny, covers the truth only partially.
Regent Horthy did indeed attempt to declare a cease-fire with the Soviets in mid-October 1944, but most of the Honvédség units simply did not obey his broadcast order, as these Hungarian officers could not envisage fighting with the Red Army against the Wehrmacht.

Dénes,
freshly promoted to the rank of (virtual) General!

[^All^]

Sorry Victor but I do not think that you would be a traitor if you would continue to fight against the reds. Remember that Transilvania was under hungarian control til 25 oct 1944 when Carei was liberated by the Romanian Army. From summer 1940 til 25 oct 1944 all men who were enlisted in the army did not fight under Romanian leadership, but under Austro-hungarian. I know this because I live in Crisana region, county Bihor, and my grad-father, God rest his soul, was called under arms in the Austro-hungarian army. If you think a little maybe some Romanian units did fight against the reds, but under Austro-hungarian comand. What's your opinion?

[^All^]

I'm searching for the 26-th or 27-th Panzergrenadiere regiment. Can anyone help me? I'm a Sven Hassel fan and in one of his books, Suflete ciuruite , he tells the whole story of his fighting retreat from Campia Romana to Carei where he crossed in Hungary. That's why I wanna know if what he has written is the truth or a fiction story.

[Dénes]

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From summer 1940 til 25 oct 1944 all men who were enlisted in the army did not fight under Romanian leadership, but under Austro-hungarian.

That would be Hungarian command, namely your grandfather served in the Honvédség, or Hungarian Army.
The Austro-Hungarian Empire ceased to exist in late 1918.

Gen. Dénes