Invasion of the Snake island, is this for real?

I suggest a "full invasion" of Ukraina by suporting her to accede in NATO and telling then to the russians: This is for Snake Island, you loosers!

This post has been edited by Hadrian on February 12, 2009 03:02 pm

re: Radub. Indeed, no one can tell FOR SURE what's down there (if anything). But you still didn't answer MY question: why only 3.5% whe we could have had more?
re: Hadrian. What makes you believe that if (not when, but IF) Ukraine enters NATO, they'll behave much better than now? After all, they've been a Soviet Republic from the beginning til the end of USSR and they've learnt quite well the Soviet code of manners.

This post has been edited by MMM on February 12, 2009 04:33 pm

MMM, so, no one knows if there is anything worth having there, but here we are talking about invasion and acts of war! Only in Romania!

I still do not get your question? 3.5% of what? Explain!

If you read carefully what I wrote above, you would get your answer right there.
I repeat, but this time in a simpler fashion:
- oil products are sold by the private company in the country. The state charges Value Added Tax and Profit Tax. This means more money to the budget. Had this been a state owned company, the state would have charged itself VAT and Profit Tax, in other words moving money from one pocket to another and call it "profit".
- the private company employs people and pays them wages. The state collects taxes, excise and levies from these people's wages that are paid by the private company. Had this been a state owned company, the state would have charged itself taxes, excise and levies, in other words moving money from one pocket to another and call it "profit". Furthermore, had the state paid these people, it would have been paying them money from the budget and make a loss in the process.

To recap: the state makes a lot of money from taxing the employees and products of a private company. This is 100 % profit and pure and unadulterated income to the budget.

On top of that, the state charges corporation tax and profit tax.

I saw your comment about "commission" above and it seems to me that you think that "commission" is a dirty word. Commission is perfectly legal and taxable - you are charged a commission by everyone around you from the bank to the shop (where it is called "mark-up"). Commission/service charges move the business world.
I have the sneaking suspicion that you are actually thinking about bribe, (baksheesh, backhanders, greasing the palms, etc) which is illegal.

This post has been edited by Radub on February 12, 2009 04:39 pm

What makes you say I'm joking? National oil companies do exist, google it. State-owned companies exist too. The fact that it's called a company doesn't automatically make it privately-owned.

Kazmunaigaz (owner of Rompetrol) is owned by Kazakhstan. And Romania no longer has a majority stake in Petrom. So we no longer have a national oil company. Why should I get a grip?

Imperialist, exactly what I said: our national company exists, but in Kazakhstan.
Radu, I was thinking/writing about bribe disguised as a secret comission.
About 3.5, you said it:

Didn't you?
Anyway, we're just chatting here, right?

It's not a question of cost, it's a question of will.

The state does not lack the money, it lacks the leaders' will to put them to good use. Instead of that will, the leaders have the will to better themselves and their groups or to throw money on expensive gadgets, limousines, laptops, much too expensive contracts given to the companies of relatives/sponsors etc. That's the main problem.

Didn't you?

No I did not.
I did not pick that figure out of the sky - if you look at the previous posts, I was merely quoting what was posted before me by others. I have no idea what the proceeds are and I could not care any less.
If you want to ask "why 3.5%?", then pose that question to whoever said that first.

If some commissions are bribes in disguise, that does not automatically mean that every commission is a bribe.

Radu

It seems that Imperialist wrote first about 3.5% - and I never implied all comissions are bribes; only those that are both indecently high AND confidential.

http://www.catavencu.ro/cum_a_incalcat_tar...urces-6053.html
Voila!

The article doesn't offer enough data for an educated opinion.

In a production sharing agreement the state would have taken 55% of the physical production (oil/gas).

In the current concession the state will get anywhere between 3.5% and 13.5% of the value of the total production (money).

For the time being we cannot talk about the size of the loss since we don't know the production level, the exact level of the royalty or the production costs!

If the production stands at 1,000,000 barrels per year with each barrel sold at 100$, taking 55% of the production and selling it yourself would give you 55 million $. Taxing 10% out of the value of the total production would give you 10 million $.

The dim-witted journalists immediately say we lost 500% of the deal.

But what would it cost us to produce 55% of those barrels (in fact to pay the company's production costs for that share of the production)? And in our case, what facilities would the state use to pump, transport and store since like pointed out we no longer have a national oil company.

So IMO it's too early to say. The state most likely lost something but for the time being I cannot be convinced that the loss is as dramatic as the journalists claim without data.

Sorry, Imperialist, but this article is just the last one from a series started as soon as the process w/ Ukraine begun. However, I neither advertise the magazine, nor sustain its 100% veracity. I just thought it would add another perspective to our discussion.

Sure, don't worry. My attitude was directed towards the article, not towards you.

No problem! I just wanted to underline that although I agree w/ their oppinions, I just used it as a convenient help to my theories. We'll see what happens next. But I'll wage good money that no one will eventually be convicted or even indicted, other than in newspapers/tv! Don't you think so?

This post has been edited by MMM on February 13, 2009 05:06 pm