recent Mig-21 crash in Romania

[Der Maresal]

Heard a story that some two days ago a Mig 21 crashed, and the Pilot who did not want to abandon his plane.. went down with it.. :cry:

Who can confirm the story and the events that lead to this tragedy.. ?

:?:

[Geto-Dacul]

It was the Captain-Commander Sorin Popa who died during military exercices, after his MIG-21 Lancer crushed. The accident took place near the locality of Viisoara (Cluj county), being the third one this year in the Cluj county.

[Victor]

[quote]It was the Captain-Commander Sorin Popa who died during military exercices, after his MIG-21 Lancer crushed. The accident took place near the locality of Viisoara (Cluj county), being the third one this year in the Cluj county.[/quote]

The 3rd this year in Cluj county? Are you sure? I know that a total of seven Lancers crashed so far. This would be the second pilot killed.

[Dénes]

This year, there were three fatal airplane accidents in Cluj County in total (not only MiGs):
the Alouette III helicopter of SMURD, the Extra 300L sports plane and the most recent one, the MiG-21 Lancer jet.
Very sad statistics, indeed.

Dénes

[C-2]

I never understood why were the very old 21's modernized with a great cost of money ,insted of the newer 23/27 or the 29...
Or even buying second hand western fighters...

[PanzerKing]

Yeah I know F-16s are pretty easy to come by...we sell them to a lot of countries.

[C-2]

It's an expensive aircraft I was thinking more about a F-20...

[Victor]

[quote]I never understood why were the very old 21's modernized with a great cost of money ,insted of the newer 23/27 or the 29...
Or even buying second hand western fighters...[/quote]

Putting 3 million per aircraft and bringing its weapons systems up to date is not that expensive. With the 300 million we could have bought 12 F-16s. This way we have 100 Lancers.

[Der Maresal]

[quote]I never understood why were the very old 21's modernized with a great cost of money ,insted of the newer 23/27 or the 29...
Or even buying second hand western fighters...[/quote]

Actually some Mig 29's were modernized too with more up to date equipment...(Mig-29 SnipeR). Like Victor says, it was more convenient to upgrade our older Mig 21's then to buy entirely new aircraft. It was a better deal.

+ the Migs can accept western and eastern weapons. Most of our arsenal is of eastern origin. The f-16's only carry western equipment. That's one thing.
If it was up to me to "replenish" the Romanian airforce, I would prefer as my number one choice the Mig29M , it is an amazing plane and the pilots already have experience with Russian aicraft. Second, the "M" version is very advanced and can carry alot of air-to-ground armament, + it's full of avionics and modern equipment. It is an entirely new aircraft quite different from the original Mig29A. I would even buy the licence and have the Mig29M produced by IAR Brasov! ie..."IAR-29M" :wink: :wink:

My second choice would be the Mirage 2000-5, but these are very expensive ..'ridiculously expensive'... until we have more money we'll just have to keep the LanceRs in service for as long as we can.. :cry:

[Dr_V]

I wonder if it's not a false economy with theese "modernised" 21's. Regardless of what weapons they can carry, can a 30 y.o. fighter be effective in real combat today? More, with these crushes we loose our best pilots and a good fighter pilot can't be "manufactured" over night when it's needed.

Oh, and what about that romanian built fighter "IAR 99"? Is it so bad that it's used only for trayning? I've heared that it's more effective in a dogfight that the MIG21, even if its slower.
If theese MIGs are so unreliable, why can't we use our own IARs till we'll have the money to buy a western interceptor? It would be good for the economy as well and even if they're not great fighters they'd be new and more reliable.

Anyway, we won't have a modern air force very soon. We live in a country where a pilot's life is cheaper than a new plane. Let's hope we'll not be engaged in a war for the next 20 years, 'cause we'll certainly loose it!

[Victor]

QUOTE

Actually some Mig 29's were modernized too with more up to date equipment

The MiG-29 Sniper was only a demonstrator. The project was canceled and all MiG-29s are now grounded because their flight resource expired and it was decided that 50 million USD are too much to modernize a squadron of those. Until 2010 the Lancers are the backbone of the RoAF. After that probably they would buy either the F-16, either the JAS-39. I would prefer the Swedish aircraft.

QUOTE

I wonder if it's not a false economy with theese \"modernised\" 21's. Regardless of what weapons they can carry, can a 30 y.o. fighter be effective in real combat today?

They are pretty effective, despite the bad jokes around them. For instance, in joint exercises with Mirage F1s of the Normandie-Niemen Squadron, the Lancers generally had a missile lock before the French did. The lack of funds makes their maintenance difficult, but the avionics are state of the art. The pilots are equipped with displays and sensors on their helmets and can target just by looking at the enemy.

QUOTE

Oh, and what about that romanian built fighter \"IAR 99\"? Is it so bad that it's used only for trayning? I've heared that it's more effective in a dogfight that the MIG21, even if its slower.

The IAR-99 is not a fighter, but a trainer, which can be used also in CAS missions. The IAR-99 Soim, updated version, is probably one of the best deals on the market. It offers a high quality at a low price. Unfortunately, many foreign buyers hesitate, because the RoAF does not have them in its arsenal yet.

Dr_V, the IAR-99 is more maneuverable than the MiG-21, just like any subsonic aircraft is more maneuverable than a supersonic. But in terms of aerial combat from distance, I doubt it would have a chance.

[Der Maresal]

I believed there was a competition regarding Romania's next generation fighter aircraft. The 3 candidates were the Saab Grippen , the F-16 and the Mirage 2000-5. It was expected that the Mirage would win and be picked by Romania because of the country's close ties to France. But in the end because of the lack of money...none got picked and instead it was chosen to modernize the old Migs.

I personally prefer the Mirage 2000-5, rather then the F-16. I think too many countries have the F-16 already. (Denmark, Norway etc...) and the Mirage is more 'exotic'. And the Grippen i would place on number 2, the F-16 being my last choice.

**The Hungarians have already the Saab Grippen - it should enter service in the near future.
They 'leased' the planes from Sweden for a decent sum of money.
That's one reason I don't want the grippen - but in any case i rather have that then a western aircraft.

* I vote Mirage :wink:

photo curtesy of the french website http://kovy.free.fr/pages/planchef1.html, excellent photos source !

[Der Maresal]

QUOTE

**The Hungarians have already the Saab Grippen - it should enter service in the near future.   They 'leased' the planes from Sweden for a decent sum of money. That's one reason I don't want the grippen - but in any case i rather have that then a western aircraft.

As for those who prefer the Gripen, this Hungarian website will tell you all about it..
http://www.gripen.hu/index_2.asp

(For some reason I don't think Romania and hungary should have the same plane...)

..and by the way..Austria will buy the Gripen too! I think for them this plane fits better then it does for either hungary or romania...
http://www.gripen.at/main.jpg

[C-2]

How much does it costs to modernized a Mig 21?
How much does a sec.hand western fighter costs?

[Dr_V]

Thanks Victor!