My album, ARR pictures and others

what about this logo painted on the fuselaje?Can you identified it?

what type of gun is this?

LeO 20 again


I found this on internet:
Nine LeO 20s were exported in 1928-29, seven to Romania and two to Brazil, as a result of demonstration flights abroad by a LeO 20 ....
is the number real or not. i know about only 2 pieces.

This post has been edited by horia on July 27, 2007 08:29 pm

Hello,

The gun (very nice photo, by the way) is a French Darne, designed as a dedicated aircraft mg by a maker of high-end hunting guns who gained experience in this field during the Great War, manufacturing Lewis guns for the French military. It was exported to many nations in the inter-war period. Most were chambered for the ubiquous .303 British (7,7x57) rimmed round; given the good quality of the photo, you might actually be able to discern whether the rounds in the belt are rimmed or not using a magnifying glass.
The last photo (beautiful!) depicts a Farman Goliath, not a LeO 20. The Goliath looks very much like an F.68BN4. For more details on ARR and the Goliath, please read this thread: http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?sh...2044&hl=goliath
This could be one of the F.68BN4 that Polish military authorities proposed to Romania (see Woj's posts in the mentioned thread).
Cheers,

Ruy

This post has been edited by Ruy Aballe on July 28, 2007 01:42 pm

the plane is 100% LeO .
below is a Goliath. mind the diference:



and



i dont't remember the source.



This post has been edited by horia on July 28, 2007 02:22 pm

Horia,

I have to disagree. The pictures you posted show a transport version of the Goliath (a 3D rendering of CV-FAR, a Farman F.63bis - please check the thread link provided in my last post). The version depicted in your picture is really a F.68BN4. Please take a look at the picture enclosed:
http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=goliath3jd6.jpg
The LeO 20 and the F.68BN4 are quite similar, but the first was slightly smaller. Another way to tell them apart is to look at the nose: the LeO 20 "balcony" for the gunner is slightly curved on the upper part, the Farman being decidedly far more squarish. Besides, the Farman u/c legs have a noticeable forward slant, the ones in the LeO have vertical leading edges.

PS.: The picture of the Polish Goliath comes from this site - http://www.iirp.prv.pl/lotnictwo/bombowce/...wce_Goliath.htm

Ruy

A small note: also if you look at the LeO 20 photo you posted (with men posing in front of the aircraft) you'll see exhaust collector rings on the radial engines, a feature not found on the Farman.

thanks Ruy for your info.what can you tell me more about the Darne mg am ARR.was any romanian plane using tis mg. What mg a Potez xxv was having.?Thanks.

This post has been edited by horia on July 28, 2007 08:33 pm

Hello again Horia,

As far as I know, the Darne was exported in sizeable quantities to several countries from the early 1920s onwards, especially those buying French-made aircraft. I know of Paraguay and Brazil in South America, while Argentina clung to several Madsen variants. Spain bought a batch of 1200 Darne guns to arm aircraft used against Rif insurgents in Morocco. Yugoslavia was another steady customer and perhaps the most enthusiastic user of the Darne system outside France (they used it till ll World War II on locally-built Breguet 19s and Potez 25).
Romania must have bought Darne guns in the mid to late 1920s, but unfortunately I do not have reliable numbers. Please look for observer-manned guns in old photos. Regarding the Potez 25, I must check the book published by Lela Presse in France; I recall having seen Vickers or Lewis guns on Scarff rings in photos of Romanian machines, but I am relying solely on my memory. As for the synchronised gun ARR Potez 25s had, I suppose Romanian machines were no different from French ones, which used French licence-built Vickers Mk II. But it could also be a Darne: Yugoslav Ikarus-made Potez 25s had one in.
Regarding the gun itself, the Darne had a most unique feature: an observer gun could be converted for use as a synchronised gun just by changing a few parts and vice-versa. Either way, it was a belt fed gun with an unusually high rate of fire (c. 1200 rpm) for its time. The other advantage was low unit price. While the inner parts and barrel were well machined the external finish was a bit on the rough side, a fact that has prompted some to deride the Darne as a "quick and dirty" alternative to guns that cost three or four times apiece. It also made use of stampings for non-crucial parts. Monsieur Darne wanted to keep production costs down: some Darne mgs had a baked black enamel finish when expensive blueing (or at least parkerization, then seen mostly on US-made guns) was the norm with most manufacturers.
Cheers,

Ruy

Thank you very much for your replay Ruy!!!

Tecuci 3 VII 922.

and the names of the people in the picture abowe:


This post has been edited by horia on July 30, 2007 03:37 pm

Ruy! is this a Darne gun on this Potez XXV plane?

Yes it is! The installation is identical to the one seen in the Potez XVs purchased by the Spanish Aviación Militar. Are you sure about the aircraft identity? Those arc-shaped cabane struts make me think of a Potez XV, not of a Potez 25. The later had completely different struts, more spaced and thinner.

it's Potez XV see the picture here:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=3376&st=75
firt on top.