War in the middle east, why oh why?

IMHO these are not Lebanese regulars. Looks like they are AMAL or Druze. What is the source of the photos ?

Yahoo.

Strikes Are Called Part of Broad Strategy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1500957_pf.html

As I do not know how long the following link will last:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...1214924,00.html
I decided it would be better to "copy" and "paste" here:

The war that never ends begins a violent new chapter
By MICHAEL ELLIOTT
Posted Sunday, Jul. 16, 2006

Why do they fight? What is it about the Middle East that makes its conflicts so intractable, such that one summer's guns ineluctably conjure up so many earlier spasms of violence? Why the hate, and where is the healing? A British Royal Commission on Palestine had it right nearly 70 years ago: "An irrepressible conflict has arisen between two national communities within the narrow bounds of one small country. There is no common ground between them. Their national aspirations are incompatible." But why has there been no movement between these incompatibles in seven decades? Why has the two-state solution that every fair-minded observer has long endorsed been so difficult to establish?

The mystery deepens because Israel is not unique. Its creation is rooted in the decay of the Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman and Russian empires at the end of the 19th century and in the desire of persecuted peoples for homelands. The Jews of Eastern Europe were not the only ones who dreamed such dreams; so did Serbs, Czechs, Poles, Croats and others. As the empires were carved up at the end of two world wars, new nations took shape. The state of Israel, to be sure, was created on someone else's land (whose is a matter of debate), but it was hardly alone in that. Today's Polish towns of Wroclaw and Bydgoszcz, for example, went by their German names of Breslau and Bromberg not long ago. Israel's case differs from that of other new nations mainly because many have never reconciled themselves to its existence.

It has been said that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity-and certainly they have failed to secure their objective of nationhood. But Israel's strategic position too is less strong than it might seem. By holding on to the West Bank and Gaza after the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel sacrificed international goodwill. Political leadership in the Islamic world, meanwhile, has shifted to religious radicals, including the founders of Hamas and Hizballah. And new forms of warfare challenge Israeli capabilities. In 1948, 1967 and 1973, Israel defeated all comers in traditional battle. But it is now fighting an asymmetrical war against small cells who hide among civilians in Gaza and southern Lebanon. It is hard to wage such a war without alienating those you want on your side. Insurgents commit an atrocity-and wait for the ruling power to overreact, kill civilians and give the cycle of hatred another twist.

Can things change? Here's an Israeli view on what overwhelming displays of force can bring: "A living people makes enormous concessions ... only when there is no hope left. Only then do extreme groups lose their sway, and influence transfers to moderate groups. Only then would these moderate groups come to us with proposals for mutual concessions." That could have been written last week. In fact, it is from a 1923 pamphlet by Ze'ev Jabotinsky, whose ideology inspired the Likud Party. If it speaks for Israeli policy today, the summer's guns will not soon fall silent.
From the Jul 24, 2006 issue of TIME magazine

This post has been edited by Florin on July 17, 2006 02:58 pm

if israel goes the way of america, that of conventional warfare in the face of unconventional enemy it wil lose big time. not on the battlefields, but where it matters, world opinion, the press and most likely will polarize even more, sending the ones that had nothing to do with Hezbollah right into their organisation. this is not the fight over who kills more or who can send more rockets into the air. this is first of all a battle for the minds of the centrists, for the people that just want to live in peace, for the ones that are not fundamentalists. so far and if things go the way they do, Hezbollah will win.

but israel does not seem to understand that. it is a militarist state whose leadership, highly enclined to militarists solution is completly oblivious about the fact that rockets no longer win the war, it's people, it is the one that is willing to bleed the longer and can take high casualty rates. and israel cannot afford that. its neighbors do.

as one of my history teachers said, who incidentally was a jew, this conflict will never end, not until one of the sides does not exist anymore.

There is no war as yet (20:22 hours 06. 17.) with Lebanon, apart from some I.D.F Special Force units being across the border on recon missions.

The Israelis have more firepower, both capable of being delivered on the ground and from the air than the Rag-tag rabble of Hizbollah, the Hizbollah rely on the fear element to intimidate the civil population of Israel, a nation that is well used to this tactic, and well prepared for a long drawn out conflict

Wars are fought between armies, Hezbollah on their own have no way to move a large force across the border and into Israel and occupie it.

And this will never happen unless the Syrian Government backed by Iran send their armies into help. But the Syrians and other Arab nations are very cautious about this situation, they only to well remember the bloody defeats in past attempts to occupie Israel.

As for the G8 and Koffia Annan calling on a Multi-National Force to go in and mediate between the two groups, U N I F I L was there in large numbers (all thats left are a few UN Observation Posts), as soon as the Christian Militia pulled out of South Lebanon, back into Israel, the UN burocrats soon changed the UNIFIL mandate in a cost cutting effort, and had most of the UNIFIL Peace Keeping Force sent home.

Ireland had U.N. troop contigent there for 15 years and had established a good relationship with the local Lebanese population both Muslim and Christian, the only people happy to see the U. N. troops leave were the Hizbollah because then nobody was then able to moniter what they were getting up to on behalf of their Iranian & Syrian masters.

Israel of course has a new government who have no experiance in fighting a war, but their military leaders are very capable in their jobs. And latest Polls reported say that a very large majority of the Israeli population support the action being taken at the moment.

Of course if you listen to some TV newsreports Haifa is under a barrage of Rocket fire today, when this was reported 3 Rockets had landed!!!

Kevin in Deva (ex 46th Irish Battalion United Nations Interim Force In Lebanon).

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on July 17, 2006 05:36 pm

I disagree, this battle is about Israel inflicting so much pain on the Lebanon state that the latter decides a confrontation with Hizballah is a piece of cake compared with the risk of getting bombed back to the stone age everytime a rogue leader like Nasrallah suddenly wakes up with the idea of attacking Israel.
Centrists are useless if they allow their country and border to be dominated by groups like Hizballah.

I have no doubt that in the short term Hizballah will win in the sense that it will not be defeated. It will still have members, followers etc. But in the long term this could deal a death blow to its political freedom in southern Lebanon.
Even if that doesnt happen, Israel will be ready to bomb the hell out of them again, if they dare to attack once more.

For now Lebanon is bleeding the most and its leaders have had enough, begging for a cease-fire.

I disagree, this battle is about Israel inflicting so much pain on the Lebanon state that the latter decides a confrontation with Hizballah is a piece of cake compared with the risk of getting bombed back to the stone age everytime a rogue leader like Nasrallah suddenly wakes up with the idea of attacking Israel.
Centrists are useless if they allow their country and border to be dominated by groups like Hizballah.

I have no doubt that in the short term Hizballah will win in the sense that it will not be defeated. It will still have members, followers etc. But in the long term this could deal a death blow to its political freedom in southern Lebanon.
Even if that doesnt happen, Israel will be ready to bomb the hell out of them again, if they dare to attack once more.

For now Lebanon is bleeding the most and its leaders have had enough, begging for a cease-fire.

i am not sure you are correct. just look at the iraki state. in a matter of weeks is was destroyed but the real battle just began. the insurgency was much more effective than the organised centralised iraqi regime ever was. in the case of Lebanon, i am not sure that the State can do anything against the Hezbollah. the state of lebanon is not even present in this conflict and i am not so sure it has the ability to be at all. their leaders can surrender 1000 times an hour it would still mean nothing at all since it is not THEM that need to surrender.

i agree with you regarding the HEzbollah. it will be severely affected by this. if you ask me good ridddance. they were a bunch of morons anyway. too bad that it will be all the civilians and the state of lebanon that will be more affected in the long term.

I know what you mean, but Israel does not intend to occupy Lebanon. At least not from the present hints and declarations. Maybe some area in the south, but not the whole country. This makes it different from the US in Irak case.

Just wanted to pipe in and say that Hezbollah did not shoot down an F-16. From the film, it appears to be a rocket that had a burn-through. I would guess it was a Hezbollah rocket.

And I believe that Imperialist is extremely "on the mark" on this one. The UN will end up "occupying" Lebanon, or what Israel leaves behind of Lebanon.

I will tell you, Iran needs to get "fixed" in a serious way.

i just hope the UN will not send a Syrian contingent.

That is funny. I can see it now: The UN divides the country into zones. There will be a Syrian zone, an Iranian zone and a N. Korean zone, with each countries providing "peacekeepers" and having sole responsibility for each zone, with human rights inspectors from China overseeing the entire operation.

The problem is, in today's UN, it's likely to happen.

This post has been edited by 120mm on July 18, 2006 11:15 am

Good one!

Hi Guys,

Nobody in the media seems to have commented on the fact that the two incidents that Israel has decided warrant this escalation were purely military. In both Gaza and on the Lebanese border Islamic militants carried out daring and successful raids into Israel against purely military targets. If US or UK special forces, for example, had managed these raids they would be congratulated for their professional expertise.

There is something profoundly different taking place amongst Hamas and Hizbollah. Neither are the old comic-opera, semi-competent PLO. Both are increasingly professional and have found a way round using the suicide bomb attacks against civilians that were so damaging to their image. Both these recent attacks might be termed "honest" military operations and present a rather different image that we in the West find more comprehensible and less alienating.

Cheers,

Sid.

true. the higher level of expertise is normal considering the ease of information. 10 hamas students, perhaps that went to universities across europe, studied at the best academies , read all the important military strategy books one can have ( and even download them and read them on one's personal laptop)...these people are no longer raggedy desert people. do not mistake them for the fundamentalist islamic idiots that read only one book and believe Allah can keep the bullets away. that is ignorant and that is why groups like the taliban were dismissed quite rapidly ( i know they have returned in some parts of Afghanistan, but i doubt they ever went away, they just started speaking again).

highly prepared terrorist cells comprised of determined intelligent men is something no army can handle, and it seems these groups are getting smarter by the day. imagine launching a mortar barrage from a marketplace. if you retaliate and bomb you get hundreds of civilians killed , terrorists long gone and people hating your guts even more.

this is the war of the future