War in the middle east, why oh why?

This only shows you know nothing about me. I'm away from home 10 hours a day. And about my stupid posts, you never engaged in any debate with me because you can only make personal attacks.

take care

This post has been edited by Imperialist on August 23, 2006 05:15 pm

Hallo C-2

I have to agree, with you, certain* members of the Forum are on the sidelines, so to speak, they cant understand what its like out there in the real world, all they see is what is posted on Forums, Blogs and the little screen of their computer, they have never been involved in a real conflict, personaly seen or smelt death and destruction, but they still feel they know everthing about the causes, and where to place the blame.

Tiny minds live in tiny worlds, and they have my sympathy.

* If the cap fits wear it.

Kevin in Deva, (ex- United Nations Interim Force In L ebanon. )

PS in fact this topic is a very good example in a mini way of why and how conflicts evolve, misunderstandings, people wanting to take control, plain ignorance, power-struggles etc...etc... and I guess my post will get removed once again, but I call it the way I see it.

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on August 23, 2006 04:54 pm

Yeah, I love you too guys. If you think you'll unnerve me with your comments you are wrong. Only love and kisses from me.

take care

Hezbollah was born in 1982 and it was formally announced in 1983. The existence of Hezbollah couldnt pre-date the Iranian revolution. Maybe you confuse Hezbollah with Amal because the latter was formed in the early 70s.

When I worked as engineer in Turkish Kurdistan, that was in the middle of a civil war: Sunni Muslims against Sunni Muslims. To be specific: Turkish Army against the Kurdish guerillas. It seems I was fortunate in a way: the guerillas were not so powerful as before. But the war was still raging on, in 1994, and Mrs. Tansu Ciller, the Prime Minister of Turkey, was very determined to crack down the insurgency.
I was not incorporated as military in Turkish Kurdistan, but I still had my experiences, from the very first day of traveling through Turkey. For 2 times at barriers in the mountains, the Turkish soldiers spotted me from a full bus and they asked me to open my luggage. The reason seemed to be that some foreigners were carrying supplies for guerillas in their luggage.
Later, I could see first hand equipment blown up by guerillas over night, because Shell was late in paying, or ceased to pay, the "protection fee" toward guerillas. (This worked like "protection" for city mobsters.) And one day the guerillas did not waste a RPG round for our SUV with only 4 persons, so they made use of ammunition toward the crowded bus coming after us. Or God knows, the bus was bigger and easier to target.

P.S. Also, what do you say, were the days of December 1989 a real conflict in Romania? The dead looked quite dead to me, and enough buildings in Bucharest were in ruins until they were rebuilt or demolished in the following years.

This post has been edited by Florin on August 23, 2006 05:35 pm

Hezbollah was born in 1982 and it was formally announced in 1983. The existence of Hezbollah couldnt pre-date the Iranian revolution. Maybe you confuse Hezbollah with Amal because the latter was formed in the early 70s.

Hezbollah was most certainly planned in the mid-70s, and the "bones were formed" prior to and corresponding with the Iranian revolution. This is not a small point. Hezbollah, and various Arab terrorists try to portray it as a "response" to Israeli "aggression". The desire to strike at Israel has been an integral part of the Iranian islamic revolutionaries from the beginning.

Certainly, Hez became renowned coincident with 1982 Lebanon, but we run into semantics here.

I am surprised I forgot my "most interesting" experience when I wrote the previous message.
One day after working hours I shared TV with some subordinates, which were locals (Kurds and Turks). As they had the habit to shift the channels meaninglessly, that time I kept the remote control in my hand. So one guy became upset, and kicked the table with his fist to express his anger. I did not care about that, so he left his room and returned with his pistol, aiming at me.
I continued to look calmly at TV, so the guy loaded the bullets, and seeing that I am continuing to calmly follow that TV channel, he pulled the trigger and touched my temple with the barrel.
I remained still, and I did not move at all, still having the remote control in my hand and still looking at the channel I wanted.
And you know what was the most interesting part of it? That guy was not fired from his job. He just got his gun confiscated. Actually my supervisor was quite concerned that I will report this to the local police, which I didn't.

This post has been edited by Florin on August 23, 2006 06:29 pm

I am surprised I forgot my "most interesting" experience when I wrote the previous message. . . . so he left his room and returned with his pistol, aiming at me.

I continued to look calmly at TV, so the guy loaded the bullets,

and seeing that I am continuing to calmly follow that TV channel, he pulled the trigger and touched my temple with the barrel.

I remained still, and I did not move at all, still having the remote control in my hand and still looking at the channel.

So he got his gun, then he aimed an empty gun at you, he loaded the bullets, he pulled the trigger, Why no BANG?? then he put the gun to your temple.

Now we all know the logical chain of events would have been to:

1. Get the gun / pistol
2. load the gun / pistol
3. Cock the gun / pistol
4. Place gun / pistol to temple of intended target,
5. Pull trigger of the gun / pistol!!!!

Lucky for you he omited to do 3 & 4 before completing 5

Kevin in Deva.

I wanted to write "pull the cock" instead of "pull the trigger".
I was not sure about the meaning of each word. My English - second language...
So he pulled the cock, not the trigger.
If you still don't believe it, what should I say? I cannot force you to believe it, and why should I try to force you, by the way?

Hallo Florin

I never said I didnt believe you, and I am glad he didnt shoot you, in my 21 years 174 days in the army, I saw some stupid things, done by stupid people* with guns, which resulted in the loss of life or injury.

* including members of my own army.

Kevin in Deva

My "favorite" stupid gun trick was pulled in my presence. It was in Iraq, where one soldier offered his loaded M16, muzzle first to another soldier to get up into the back of a 5 ton truck. Of course, the safety was off and his finger was on the trigger, so when the other soldier pulled on the barrel to get up, it fired, essentially hollowing out his forearm.

The soldier lived, though his arm was amputated on the spot with a pair of scissors.

Two weeks later, in the same unit, another soldier was shot, through the thigh, while trying to climb into the back of probably the same 5 ton truck. There is some solid leadership for you.

Sorry for the hijack, but I saw the first one happen, and came upon the second one after hearing the shot. It does kind of stick in the mind.

Hi Guys,

My personal favourite such incident involved an American friend, known as Big Bill, in Rhodesia. He was a skilled prize-winning shottist, while I had 164 African troops under me. Occasionally one of my men would have a negligent discharge. Big Bill put this down to Africans not being well conditioned to the care and use of weapons.

However, fate has a habit of biting the complacent in the bottom. One happy day Big Bill had a negligent discharge from his MAG on automatic while dismounting from a truck at Mtoko. I was able thereafter to remind him that he alone had managed to fire more rounds of negligent discharge in a couple of seconds than all of my men combined had managed in an entire year!

Cheers,

Sid.

Since Israel did undertake aggressive actions in Lebanon since 1975, it is hard to draw a line and say the Israeli actions had no effect on the formation of shiite reaction/resistance (Hezbollah).

However, coming back to what you said, the only organisation founded around 1975 was Harakat Amal (in 1974). Apparently Hezbollah was born after splits appeared in Amal in 1978 and then the influence of the iranian islamic revolution was felt in 1979. I dont know if Hezbollah was planned in 1975. Do you have some info regarding that?

take care

RECENT STORY ABOUT THE WAR IN THE MIDDLE EASR DATED: AUG 25 2006

READ ALL ABOUT IT, NEW NEWS! NOT RECYCLED FROM A MONTH AGO.

Check it out at: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/25/world/mi...t/25sunnis.html

For those of you who cant wait and want it served fresh, then read all after here:

At Funeral, a Sunni Village Condemns Hezbollah’s Presence.

By HASSAN M. FATTAH
Published: August 25, 2006
MARWAHEEN, Lebanon, Aug. 24 — For months, the residents of this predominantly Sunni village near the Israeli border watched anxiously as the Shiite Hezbollah militiamen brought arms and rockets into town in preparation for battle. The residents grappled with whether they should accept the fighters’ presence and face a possible Israeli attack or try to eject them, with the more probable risk of retribution by Hezbollah.


On Thursday, as the village buried 23 people who were killed by Israeli warplanes while trying to flee on July 15, many had belatedly made up their mind.

“We kept beseeching them, ‘Stay out! Stay out!’ ” said Zainab Ali Abdullah, 19, who lost her father, brother and several other members of the family in the attack. “They said, ‘We’re all in the same boat together, so deal with it.’ But why should our children die for their cause?”

Hundreds of people gathered here on Thursday to lay to rest the last bodies that had been left at a temporary mass grave in Tyre, burying them in a grave site on the edge of a tobacco field overlooking a valley in an emotional ceremony that brought much-needed closure to the town’s ordeal. The bodies had languished in the temporary grave for more than a week after the cease-fire, until the residents decided it was safe to return.

For many, the gathering on Thursday also became a chance to air grievances against Hezbollah, whom they blame for having brought trouble to their quiet community.

Criticism of Hezbollah is rare in southern Lebanon, where the group exercises significant influence and economic power. Villages like Marwaheen — which largely supports the Future Movement of Saad Hariri, son of the assassinated former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri — often miss out on Hezbollah’s largess but pay the price for its politics.

“There is no way for us to stop them,” said Ibrahim, who lost several relatives in the attack and who asked that his last name not be used for fear of retribution. “These are not people you can say no to.”

On July 15, Israeli loudspeakers across the border warned villagers to evacuate after Hezbollah began firing rockets into northern Israel from near the town. The families gathered in the center of the village and then went to a nearby United Nations base for shelter, but, they said, they were turned away. Many returned to the village, but one group, including Ms. Abdullah, drove in two cars in the direction of Tyre, a larger coastal town that they hoped would be safer.

About five miles away, one of the vehicles broke down, Ms. Abdullah said, and was soon struck by a shell from an Israeli gunboat. Israeli helicopters then fired rockets at both cars and continued with machine gun fire, she said. Only four people survived the attack, she said, including herself, her niece Lara, who lost her entire family, and two neighbors.

Ms. Abdullah said she walked with shrapnel wounds in her leg and stomach for an hour and a half to get help.

The town’s troubles began sometime last year when a local resident who had converted to Shiism was appointed the local representative of Hezbollah, residents said. Soon strange things began to occur: strangers came through for late-night meetings; trucks would come and go in the middle of the night; and a suspicious-looking white van was parked at each end of the village.

When the war broke out, rockets flew out of the village and a hilltop nearby, and the fears of many residents that trouble would come grew stronger.

On Thursday, one of the suspicious white vans was sitting next to the town mosque. The van had apparently been hit by an Israeli missile, but the launching platform for a Katyusha rocket could still be seen inside. A rocket that lay next to the van a few days earlier had been removed.

Elsewhere, villagers showed off a weapons dump that included heavy machine guns, mortar rockets and launchers, and numerous other rockets left behind. Part of the weapons store had been bombed, but a much larger store down the street was intact.

Residents said Hezbollah was using them as human shields. “One man in this village was able to turn all our lives upside down for just a bit of money,” Ibrahim said. When the villagers left, he said, the fighters did too, as evidenced by the limited damage done to the town.

“We want the army and the United Nations to come in here and protect us,” he said. “Israel is our enemy, but the problem is that Hezbollah gave them an excuse to come in and kill our children.”

In an emotional two-hour burial, a train of ambulances carrying the bodies drove into town with sirens blaring and recitation from the Koran playing over loudspeakers. Survivors ran to the vehicles.

“That was my dad,” Ms. Abdullah said pointing at a poster on a wall in town depicting her family members who were killed. “That was my brother, and that is his family. I wish God had taken me with them.”

Ms. Abdullah stood outside as the coffins were carried to a makeshift staging ground for the burials, waving farewell to each body as it was carried past.

“Farewell, father,” she cried as his coffin moved past, fighting off her cousins who tried to hold her back. “Farewell, brother, I will miss you.”

End of Article.

Sympathy to the victims of conflict everywhere, past present and in the future.

Kevin in Deva

This post has been edited by New Connaught Ranger on August 26, 2006 02:35 pm

Resistance renews itself

The more havoc Israel wreaks, the more resistance it will face, writes Serene Assir

full article: http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/806/re63.htm

Two souths, one war

Israel is unlikely to win the current military confrontation with Hizbullah and its defeat could hasten the unraveling of a regional political system based on US client states, writes Tamim Al-Barghouti

ful article: http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/806/op132.htm