Germans and Hungarians trapped in Romania after August 23rd

[Florin]

Hi,

Well, as I just started the subject about the Romanians trapped by August 23rd events in Germany, her "Allierte" and the occupied territories, it is good to have also a topic about the Germans and Hungarians trapped by August 23rd in Romania. Not because it would be fair, but it would be also interesting.

It is a good chance to ask: Did Japan have an embassy in Bucharest? Did Croatia have an embassy in Bucharest?
I suppose the guys serving Benito Mussolini and Republica Sociala Italiana had one. At August 23rd the Vichy government was collapsing in the south of France, so I don't know what their guys, if any, were doing in Bucharest.

Following the reasons mentioned in "Romanians trapped ...in The Third Reich", I do not consider appropriate do discuss under this subject about the German and Hungarian ethnics living in Romanian controlled territory. However, if anybody want to do it, at least we can argue around the matters to clarify them. So, if sending 100.000 Germans for forced labor in Soviet Union could be a good subject, the large participation of young local Germans and Hungarians as non-regular volunteers alongside regular German and Hungarian units, in the fight for Transylvania, could also be a good subject.

So, the citizens of Germany, Hungary or other Axis countries, having various assignments in Romania (military service, training, diplomats etc.) are the target of this subject.

And, like in "Romanians trapped...in the The Third Reich", I'll also offer 4 examples:

For some years my grandfather had a close neighbor (they had common fence) who was born in Germany. They talked a lot .
The neighbor was a soldier trapped by August 23rd in Romania and was hidden by a Romanian family. The Romanians painted his blonde hair in black, to don't draw attention. Eventually the German married with the Romanian daughter of those who helped him. He told to my grandfather that he had no reasons to return to Germany, because all his family was killed by bombing raids.

In the winter between 1944-1945 my grandfather family lived in Predeal, as tenants in a big house. (His unit had the headquarters in Predeal, and after 3 years of Russian front, my grandfather remained in the homeland as trainer for recruits. It is just happening that he never fought on the Western Front.) Generally speaking, all houses on that street were holiday villas built by rich Romanians before the war, and most of the street was uninhabited.
One night, when my grandfather was not home, my grandmother heard very clear voices in German from the roof penthouse of her house. There was radio noise and the guys discussed like using a radio transmitter.
Next morning she reported the case, but the guys left meanwhile.

My uncle, a youngster being trained to become a young officer of the Royal Romanian Army, was taking part to a training march in Romanian Carpathian Mountains, in early 1945. (When he arrived in Czechoslovakia on the frontline, as young officer, it was in the days when Germany surrendered.) So while they were hiking some mountain peaks, my uncle saw a cigar butt still smoking, close to the path. For sure it wasn't theirs - no Romanian in the row was smoking in that moment. My uncle decided to don't spot attention about that, and to behave as he didn't see anything. The reason? Very simple. If some guys were hidden waiting for them to pass, the guys may be ready to open fire if discovered. And they could be in a very good advantage - first of all, they couldn't be seen.

The 4th one was told to me by a class coleague, primary school (believe it or not): he said that the "lost" Germans still had operational vehicles, and they were stealing gasoline used by the motors acting the petroleum pumps, in the remote spots of the oil fields.

Well, a new subject is ready.
Florin

[Florin]

[quote]My uncle.... was taking part to a training march in Romanian Carpathian Mountains, in early 1945.
[/quote]

I am sorry! Actually he was my mother's uncle. For our story doesn't make a difference, anyway.

Florin

[C-2]

I never understood why the german ambasador,Von Kilinger,commited suicide after 23/Aug!?
He wasn't Japaneas and I belive he could leave without problems.
Does anyone know more about this subject?

[Dénes]

[quote]I never understood why the german ambasador,Von Kilinger,commited suicide after 23/Aug!?
He wasn't Japaneas and I belive he could leave without problems.
Does anyone know more about this subject?[/quote]
The German ambassador to Rumania, Baron Manfred von Killinger, and his secretary committed suicide on Sept. 3, as his legation, surrounded by Soviet troops, was about to be stormed following an ultimatum. He did not want to became captive to the Soviets and choose instead to take his own life.

Dénes

[C-2]

Why he wasn't alowed to flee?
He had imunity!

[Dénes]

[quote]Why he wasn't alowed to flee?
He had imunity![/quote]
C'mon, Doctor, do you think diplomatic immunity mattered to the Soviets?

Dénes

[C-2]

I wasn't talking about the Soviets!
there are more than 10 days after the 23/August!
I'm sure the king would have let him leave!

[Dénes]

Take, for example, the case of the Swedish diplomat, Raoul Wallenberg, who was kidnapped by the NKVD in early 1945 from the outskirts of Budapest and never heard ever since. Reportedly, he ended his life in mysery somewhere in the Siberian GULAG. Compared to this scenario, von Killinger was right to point his pistol to his head moments before capture.

Dénes

[C-2]

Wallenberg was not to be worried about the Russians,that's why he didn't leave.Von KIllinger could run for his life in time!

[Dénes]

[quote]Von KIllinger could run for his life in time![/quote]
Yes, but what if he was ordered by the Führer to stay? He would certainly not defy an order from his superior just to save his own life.
It's a complicated situation, as Rumania had already declared war on Germany and Hungary on Aug. 25, therefore all the new enemies' diplomats ought to be expulsed within a day or two.
There must be details somewhere in a specialized book. Did you try to check out, for example, Nicolae Baciu: 'Agonia Romaniei, 1944-1947'?

Dénes

[Dénes]

There was a book translated in Rumanian, dealing with the adventures of a German soldier trapped behind Rumanian lines following the Aug. 23 coup: 'Calvarul meu in Romania', by Kurt Schieboldt, Editura Tinerama, 1992.

Dénes

[Florin]

[quote]Take, for example, the case of the Swedish diplomat, Raoul Wallenberg, who was kidnapped by the NKVD in early 1945 from the outskirts of Budapest and never heard ever since. Reportedly, he ended his life in mysery somewhere in the Siberian GULAG. Compared to this scenario, von Killinger was right to point his pistol to his head moments before capture.

Dénes[/quote]

Hi,

It is said that Ion Antonescu, being in Soviet captivity, was shown naked, in a cage, on the Moskow streets, during winter.
If such a tale is true (and considering Antonescu's eventual execution), von Killinger did what was the best for him.
Even if he would surrender to the Romanians before September the 3rd, the Romanians will offer him to the Russians.
It is interesting to see that people who cooperated with the Russians, like von Paulus, enjoyed a better life. Maybe simply for von Killinger cooperation was out of question.
It is interesting to remember that both Antonescu and von Paulus took part as witnesses in the Nurnberg Trial. They were in Russian custody during the trial.

And by the way, Mr. Denes, what did the Swedish diplomat Wallenberg to annoy Russians? I think you are our best source for this matter. If I remember right, Mr. Wallenberg helped some Jews to escape the Hollocaust. So what was "wrong" from the Soviet point of view?

Florin

[Victor]

[quote] It is said that Ion Antonescu, being in Soviet captivity, was shown naked, in a cage, on the Moskow streets, during winter. [/quote]

That is pure fantasy. General Pantazi, who was imprisoned together with him in Russia, did not mention this. Antonescu was treated pretty well, until May 1945.

Back on topic, maybe Killinger's fate in Germany would not have been that much better, after his failure to consider all the signals of the Romanian separate armistice.

[Florin]

[quote][quote] It is said that Ion Antonescu, being in Soviet captivity, was shown naked, in a cage, on the Moskow streets, during winter. [/quote]

That is pure fantasy. ......
[/quote]

Ok, so it's "Folclor". For the English speakers: folklore.

Regards,
Florin

[Orok]

QUOTE

The neighbor was a soldier trapped by August 23rd in Romania and was hidden by a Romanian family. The Romanians painted his blonde hair in black, to don't draw attention.

Was that really necessary? I thought there were a lot blond Romanians! I think what might betray his true identity would be his general demeanor and lack of knowledge of the Romanian language. These two factors are how people generally tell who is a foreigner.