Dresden Bombing. Holocaust?

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtm.../12/wdres12.xml

Of course, this has no real meaning. But such decisions would help transform horrendous acts of war (like bombing the hell out of your enemy or playing with nukes) into unlawfully decisions.

C-2, your offensive remark has no reasoning. What's the matter with you?

What about the Blitz on London? those weren't humans over there?Coventry? Rotredam? and even Bucarest!
What about Warsovia?Who started the bombing of cities if not the Germans?
To be more precise ,they started already from WW1 via Spain.

personally i admit the entire dresden bombing, from the civilian point of view, was a massacre. however, from the military point of view it was a economical decision: the more i scare the ennemy, the more i kill its morale. and a soldier with a low morale is much easier to destroy. i belive this was the reasoning over the bombing.

turning back to ethimology, the jewish community has embraced this specific term to characterize the killing of a very large number of them in concentration camps. the word HOLOCAUST is used as defining the genocide over JEWISH population, not other populations. becasue if this was a generic term for genocide, we would have the armenian holocaust, the cambodian holocaust, the ukrainean and chinese even....

i shall express no opinions over this on this forum, because even if i say a positive thing somebody will undoutebly start yelling, so my point stops at this.


oh, and C2, don't change the subject. you were out of line.

This post has been edited by Indrid on April 16, 2005 01:15 pm

I did not refer to Germany, but of a specific way to wage war. From that point of view, german actions in Rotterdam and London are of the same type. I do not defend specific german actions, I just say that we could include in "crimes against humanity" section some "bombing runs" that proved to be devastating for human lives (Tokyo is the best example)

What is with all this "starting"? Ok, germans started bombing, they should have been held responsible for that. But explaining allied actions just from the point of view of anti-nazi struggle gives pardon to all allied commanders or politicians...

This post has been edited by Alexandru H. on April 16, 2005 01:21 pm

The germans speak about calling Dresden bombing a Holocaust.

A holocaust as in "a very large amount of destruction, especially by fire or heat, or the killing of very large numbers of people".

Incidentally there were lots of fires in Dresden.

The Holocaust means "the killing of millions of Jews and others by the Nazis before and during the Second World War".

The common noun "holocaust" can be employed in various situations without that meaning revisionism etc. It has become widely used, without that nullifying the meaning or historical relevancy of The Holocaust...

This post has been edited by Imperialist on April 16, 2005 01:30 pm

Alex, I suggest you open up another topic that deals with all the German bombings.

C-2 is right, around 30,000 people died in bombed London.
C-2, the Germans did their own horrendous cirmes, but one cannot mention them over and over again and each time when talking about Allied bombings... unless otherwise denied, the german crimes are known and acknowledge, but due to time and topic, rementioning them each time is quite impossible.

This post has been edited by Imperialist on April 16, 2005 01:37 pm

Once again, I did not say that the germans are innocent. In fact, I haven't pronounced any nationality name. Based on the article, I said that it would be nice if we could transform such tragedies (Warsaw, Rotterdam, London, Tokyo, Dresden and yes, even Bucharest) into Holocaust-type actions, like Imperialist rightly suggested. Making them sound like a common feature of the war tells us nothing about the moral stance involved...

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This post has been edited by Victor on April 16, 2005 03:57 pm

The germans speak about calling Dresden bombing a Holocaust.

A holocaust as in "a very large amount of destruction, especially by fire or heat, or the killing of very large numbers of people".

Incidentally there were lots of fires in Dresden.

The Holocaust means "the killing of millions of Jews and others by the Nazis before and during the Second World War".

The common noun "holocaust" can be employed in various situations without that meaning revisionism etc. It has become widely used, without that nullifying the meaning or historical relevancy of The Holocaust...

i totally agree with you...
i only meant to say that this is the Jewish version. they were accustomed to describing what happened to them during ww2, and the fact that other ethnic groups want to use the same description is viewed negatively. this is all

I just had enought hearind about the "poor Germans that were bombed without mersi".

I care about the "poor innocent people that were bombed to death by the professional armies of Germany, US, Great Britain, Soviet Union, Japan".

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This post has been edited by Victor on April 16, 2005 03:58 pm

The Dresden bombing was obviously a terrible warcrime. Don't compare it with Rotterdam, London or Bucharest. Rotterdam was a mistake while London and Bucharest were not open cities.
Dresden was an open city bombed without any military reason at a time when Germany's surrender was only a matter of days. There are only 2 possible explanations for it: Churchill wanted a "final revenge" against the Germans or he wanted to impress the advancing Soviets with the power of the Allied airforce.
Unlike other war criminals, Churchill and Harris became national heroes and lived happily after this crime.
More people died in Dresden than in Hiroshima, all of them civilians.
I read a great book about Dresden: Kurt Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse 5" ("Abatorul 5" in romana, Ed. Polirom). Vonnegut was an US POW who witnessed the bombing and helped the survivors. It is a very good book who captures the madness behind this bombing without specifficaly describing the moment.

I think was a "Bomber" Harris last song.

Iama

C-2, that kind of reaction was uncalled for. I suggest you, Alexandru H. and Indrid settle your problems by less violent means.

I have cleaned up the topic.