Battle for Oradea

I'm starting this topic hoping that there are some people around here who knows more info than me about the battle for Oradea and the aproach of romanian/soviet troops towards Oradea.

I'm starting the contribution with the information that I have at this moment.
The informations I gathered accidentaly during years, speaking in different ocassions with elder men, wich turned out to be WW2 veterans.

So....

...even if dont remember the name (it was back in 1990-1991), a WW2 veteran, from romanian AT artillery told me that romanian troops were advancing on todays Arad-Oradea road. He remembered the very acurate german artillery fire when closing to Les village:"if it was even a single horse-powered wagon on the road, the germans put an artillery shell exactly on it". Romanians figured out that the german artillery observer must be on the tower of the curch from Les village. The veteran told me that he was in charge to destroy the tower (and the german artillery observer) and that he destroyed the tower with 2 shells.

Another WW2 veteran (met in 1994-1995) told me that his unit aproached Oradea from the direction of Tinca-Pausa, thru forests. When they aproached Nojorid village, romanian infantry (and himself) were atacked by german airplanes; the forest begun to burn and romanian infantry routed in panic.

I read somewhere that romanians lost about 300 men in the battle for Les village (about 12-14 km from Oradea). In the back of orthodox church of Les village was put a very small wooden cross for the romanian soldiers who died in ww2, 10 meters from the Arad-Oradea road.

The soviet troops aproached Oradea from Beius direction.
Being very close to Baile Felix (3-4 km), on a narrow valley, they found themselves under very heavy german artillery fire, wich inflicted great losses to soviet troops.
On that area died on the same action romanian colonel Buzoianu. There it is a monument erected on his memory.

These are my informations about Oradea battle.
Please feel free to correct them, or to comment or contribute with more info.

You should contact the local museum and ask if they have any publication related to the battles in the region. Usually, there are such obscure publications available. Of course, they would present the actions from the Rumanian point of view.

Gen. Dénes

I'm ready to listen also the other side, to made myself a real and complet opinion about events.

An interesting book touching the subject are gen. Mociulschi's memoirs on the post 23 August 1944 campaign. His 3rd Mountain Division took part in the fighting near Oradea, on the left flank of the Soviet Tudor Vladimirescu and 337th Rifle Divisions, which actually entered Oradea.

Les was taken by the 11th Mountain Battalion of the same 3rd Mountain Division. It had been entrenched and fell only after difficult house to house fighting. No casualty numbers are mentioned, but 300 are IMO too many for one battalion. The only number mentioned is that of the POWs taken: 70.

According to ww2 veteran Dumitru Nadis in his article from "Serviciul Credincios" vol. II in Les died 318 romanian soldiers from 3rd mountain division.
In Oradea and surroundings "Tudor Vladimirescu" division lost more than 2.500 casualties in 2 weeks of fight.

Hi guys,
I'm new in here.My name is Mihai and i'm from Nojorid,Bihor.
I'm very interested about this topic.
The information i know:
Between Oradea and Nojorid exists a line of bunker's(ruins).I've found that this line was called "Linia de aparare Ferdinand", is that right?Who built them?What type are?
I don't know what type of bunkers they are, could you tell me?
Also, there's an anti-tank entrenchment (as i know) called"Santul Anticar".
I'd like to know if there were any major battles,too.
I'm ashamed to ask old people in my village about these things,these horific things.

Thanks!

PS:Can we speak in romanian?

That line had no oficial name back in 1940. Later, it was named Linia fortificata Carol al II-lea.

The bunkers were designed to accept only machineguns and submachine guns, not artilery. They were built by romanians starting with the year 1938. They were blowned up by hungarian army in 1940, after N-W Transylvania was given to Hungary. They never fired a single bullet in combat, so there didnt happened anything horible in the war. "Santul anticar" was a part of the fortification sistem, which was starting at Seini, Maramures county, and ended at Zimandu Nou, Arad county. It was not a continous fortified front, it covered just the most important routes of invasion coming from west.

For more info and pics see here http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=3926

PS: admins of the forum dont allow romanian language here, only english, in order to allow foreigners to learn more about romanian military history, as there are few foreigners speaking romanian.

This post has been edited by 21 inf on January 25, 2011 08:12 pm

I spoke some months ago with the local representative of Asociatia Nationala Cultul Eroilor, a former young army colonel, who said to me that the figure of 300 mountain troop KIA in Les is real, they are all buried in the cemetery of this village.

Thank you for all!

I understand now, but i know there were some battles and aerial atacks.
Do you have more info?


PS:I'd like to meet you someday.

At least one aerial atack was in late 1944 against the romanian troops who aproached Nojorid from direction of Tinca, crossing the fields.

In 1950's there were still burned tank carcasses on the fields surounding Les and Nojorid, but they were not a result of a battle for the fortifications, they resulted more probably from the battle for Oradea, as I know from the president of local veteran's association, who was a child in that period and saw those wrecks.

I think i know everything i wanted to know.,NOW!
Thank you!

Hallo,
How the former enemy saw the battle, read (hungarian only)
http://mek.niif.hu/05000/05068/html/index.htm
I don't know hungarian but I'll try to translate it in english.
Maybe DENES can help us?

Thanks for the link!

The following chapter describes the battles in the area:
2.2. Harcok Nagyvárad környékén (1944. szeptember 20–1944. október 5.)
Sorry, but it's too long for me translate it.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on January 26, 2011 06:38 am

There is a chapter about the battle for Oradea, but it also too long to translate it. Maybe, if I'll have enough free time in the future, I'll put it an abstract, but I cant promise anything.