Fieseler Fi 167, Did Romania really have it?

"Fieseler Fi 167 carrier-based Torpedobomber



The Fieseler Fi 167 was designed as the prime torpedo and reconnaissance bomber for German aircraft carriers. With the beginning of the construction of the Graf Zeppelin in 1937, two aircraft producers, Fieseler and Arado, were ordered to produce prototypes for a carrier based torpedo bomber. By summer of 1938 the Fiesler design proved to be superior to the Arado design, the Ar195.

Like the famous Fieseler Fi 156 Storch, the Fi 167 had surprising slow speed capabilities, the plane would be able to land almost vertically on a moving aircraft carrier.

After two prototypes (Fi 167 V1 & Fi 167 V2), twelve pre production models (Fi 167A-0) were build which only had slight modifications to the prototypes. The aircraft exceeded all requirements by far, and had excellent handling capabilities and could carry about twice the required weapons payload.

Since the Graf Zeppelin was not expected to be completed before the end of 1940, the construction of the Fi 167 only had a low priority. When the construction of the Graf Zeppelin was stopped in 1940, the completion of further aircraft was stopped and the existing ones were taken into Luftwaffe service in the "Erprobungsgruppe 167".

After the construction of the CV Graf Zeppelin was continued in 1942 the Junkers Ju 87 C took over the role as an reconnaissance bomber and torpedo bombers weren't seen to be needed anymore. Nine of the exisiting Fi 167 were send to a coastal naval squadron in the Netherlands and returned to Germany in summer of 1943. After that they were sold to Romania. The remaining planes were used in the "Deutsche Versuchsanstalt für Luftfahrt" (German Aircraft Experimental Institute) in Budweis, Czechia for testing several different landing gear configurations. None of this aircraft still exists today"

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/avi...i167/index.html

So, is true what is in article? About Romania and that type of plane?


Iama

The Fi 167 was never in Rumanian service (the Croats received them).
It's yet another myth related to ARR.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 05, 2004 02:30 pm

Speaking of myth, several spanish sites related gives the figure of 9 planes sold to Romania.

Is not only example of "good" documentation...


(see for example Dewoitine D 520)


Iama

Indeed!

The list of aircraft types never used by ARR despite what has been written in various publications is long. The list includes, but not finishes with the 100+ pcs. of Dewoitine D.520 (as mentioned by Iamandi, the type went to the Bulgarians), the Morane-Saulnier MS-406 (the type went to the Croats), the Avia B-534 (the type went to the Bulgarians), the He 115, the Messerschmitt Bf 109G-14 or G-10, the Arado Ar 96 (the type went to the Bulgarians and Hungarians), even the Arado Ar 196 floatplane (I have yet to see a proof in regards of a couple of aircraft actually delivered to ARR and painted in Rumanian colours, as depicted recently in 'Modelism' magazine).

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 05, 2004 02:58 pm

Hello Dénes et alli,

A few ex-NDH Fi-167's were also used for a very short period after the war by the Yugoslav A.F. I don't have many details, but I heard that someone has plans to write a book on the type.
The origin of the "Romenian Fi-167" myth dates back to the Sixties, when a certain British author put it into written form, in a widely circulated book (now very much outdated) devoted to the Luftwaffe. I don't have the slightest idea about where or from whom did he got the "info", but we must bear in mind that those were the times of the Cold War, when access to any type of archival material beyond the Iron Curtain was virtually impossible. This problem gave ample spread to all sorts of rumours and hearsay.

As for the Ar-196 it is indeed mentioned in some places as having served in the A.R.R. (as a side note, I remember finishing Heller's 1/72 kit in Romenian markings when I was a teenager in the Eighties...).

This problem reaches incredible levels in what pertains to the Spanish Civil War and the Ejército del Aire in the Forties. A good example: the Focke-Wulf Fw 56 "Weihe" was never employed by the Spaniards, but I recall having seen a couple of sources mentioning it. The same applies to the elusive Portuguese Hawker Nimrod: a lot of people, mostly in the U.K., still believe that the Aeronáutica Naval received one... The list of "Iberian ghost aircraft" is long, too long, and off-topic here, but it is a good example that illustrates your point, Dénes.

Ruy

This post has been edited by Ruy Aballe on October 05, 2004 04:22 pm

If i understand well, you say Ar 196 was not in ARR? I see in members list name of Crisitan Craciunoiu. Why mr. CC not talk about this thing? Here, it is a cool subject.

Iama

What I said, Iama, is that I have not seen yet any proof that the Ar 196 floatplane was in ARR service (a colour side drawing made by an artist is not a proof). I did not say it was certainly not in ARR colours, as it might had been. Only that I would love to see a proof of this.

So far, the German documents I've seen [Deutsche Luftwaffenmission in Rumänien (DLR)] suggest that the Germans did indeed offer the Ar 196 to the Rumanians, but the Rumanians did not want them (in the early Summer of 1944).

Yes, a reply from Mr. Craciunoiu, or anyone else who's knowledgeable about this topic, would be welcome.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 07, 2004 02:13 pm

Also the Ju-87B, is a mystery plane, and I have yet to see proff that it ever was in service with the ARR, even tought some sources confirm it.

I'll post some other time about Stuka units, and i have some rare photos from a french book on ARR Stukas, that mentions Ju-87B's in service as well as the D.520

How about this?



Ar-196A, Odessa 1943

Source: 'Wings of Fatherland' 1996, No.2
Plane Schemes of WW2 - all countries - russian website, great adress

This post has been edited by Der Maresal on October 07, 2004 03:56 pm

See above quote from my previous post.

Gen. Dénes

This post has been edited by Dénes on October 07, 2004 04:32 pm

Unlike the Ar 196, which were ordered and delivered (in crates) in 1944 and which is not known too well if were assembled and used operationally, there is no trace of Ju-87Bs and D.520s in Romanian records or veteran memories (the actual primary sources). These two are not "mistery planes", they are simply non-existant planes to the ARR.

Yugoslav AF has used 3 examples of Fi 167 after the WW II.

Do you have any documentation to this effect? I am currently gathering docs for
a 1/5th Fi-167 project and looking for additional photographs, magazine articles
or WWII documentation relative to the Fieseler Fi-167.

There were a total of 14 constructed. Two prototypes and twelve pre-production
aircraft which were sent to the Netherlands, Croatia and Romania before WWII
ended.

Your statement relative to Yugoslav A.F. having three examples "after" WWII is
of great interest to me. There are literally no detailed drawings of the Fi-167 in
existance today. Dennis Punnett illustrated Wm. Green's Warplanes of the Third
Reich and I am trying to contact him without success.

There is an extremely poor CAD (dxf) file out there for a much smaller and ill
shaped (stretched semi-scale) rc model. I want to build an Fi-167 at 1/5th.

Any feedback and resources shared for this project will be greatly appreciated
as there's not much out there on the Fi-167 from people above ground... If
there is a museum example no one is apparently aware of it.