Picture of the Day - "Progress" in Iraq / Update

[Der Maresal]

Progress in Iraq?

This does not look like it... :? (1) Blackhawk Helicopter explodes after being hit by RPG. (2) Yesterday, a US Colonel was killed, and 18 wounded after an attack on a Baghdad Hotel.
Paul Wolfowitz who was in the hotel, - unhurt - but badly shaken after the explosion.

American Tank Stuck in an Irrigation Canal.


....and...another one...


the inscription on the gun reads "Bush & CO"

but things are going "just fine"

[Florin]

QUOTE

.....American Tank Stuck in an Irrigation Canal.....

In the first photo you can see a road along the farther shore, dangerously close to the edge.

The closest shore is sandy / soft.
I guess the shore simply collapsed under 60 tons and tracks with 1 kg per square centimeter. I bet it was dangerously close to the edge.

But maybe like the elephants, they wanted to suck some water with the muzzle. . .
:idea:

Florin

[Der Maresal]

How do you know it was 1 kg per square centimeter :?:


:wink:

[Florin]

Hi,

I am curious about some matters, if anybody can help me.
According to what you could read in the Romanian newspapers:

1. How many soldiers belonging to the Romanian Army are deployed in Afghanistan?
2. How many soldiers belonging to the Romanian Army are deployed in Iraq?

And according to the same Romanian newspapers:

How many Romanians were killed in action, or missing in action, or wounded in the countries I mentioned?

Florin

[Florin]

QUOTE

How do you know it was 1 kg per square centimeter  :?:     :wink:

Hi,

I bet on it. Compared with computers, any human being is taking chances or is making bets sometimes.

If you make an average between the pressure on tracks of the Tiger I and the Tiger II, it will leads you to 1 kg per square centimeter. As the weight of the American tank Abrahms is close to that of Tiger I and Tiger II, I made this assumption.

The matter can be clarified for good if you can find the track pressure of the American tank of Internet. I don't know if you can. But you can get it for the German Tigers.

Florin

[Chandernagore]

CODE

The matter can be clarified for good if you can find the track pressure of the American tank of Internet. I don't know if you can. But you can get it for the German Tigers.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...nd/m1-specs.htm

Unfortunately it's expressed in PSI :-) But you're not too far of the track, so to speak. The 61 tons M60 that the Abrams replaced had a ground pressure of 0,79 Kg/cm²

[cuski]

QUOTE

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...nd/m1-specs.htm Unfortunately it's expressed in PSI :-)    But  you're not too far of the track, so to speak. The 61 tons M60 that the Abrams replaced had a ground pressure of 0,79 Kg/cm²

The M1 has 1.10 kg/cm². The Leopard 2A4 has 0.92 kg/cm², but it all depends on what kind of tracks they were using when this was measured.

[Der Maresal]

QUOTE

The M1 has 1.10 kg/cm². The Leopard 2A4 has 0.92 kg/cm², ......

...if Fritz had too many Bratwurst sausages the weight per cm² of the Leopard might actually become greater then that of the M1

[Victor]

QUOTE

1. How many soldiers belonging to the Romanian Army are deployed in Afghanistan?

There is one mechanized infantry battalion (I think the 151st is now deployed), one MP platoon and staff oficers. Some 450 men

QUOTE

2. How many soldiers belonging to the Romanian Army are deployed in Iraq?

One mechanized infantry battalion (the 811th), one engineer detachment, one MP company, staff officers and an intelligence gathering unit (with one or two Shadow 600 UAVs). There was also the 383rd NBC Company in Kuweit, but it returned home.

QUOTE

How many Romanians were killed in action, or missing in action, or wounded in the countries I mentioned? Florin

None.

[mabadesc]

Well, the tank driver may have been stupid.......but Man, oh Man!, what a great tank the M1A1/M1A2 is. Impressive!

The upgraded version (A2) has an electronic positioning display screen within the tank. The screen displays in real-time the position and movements of each tank/vehicle in the brigade.

Not to mention how they turned those Iraqi (well, russian) T-72 and T-62 into piles of twisted metal, while hardly losing any tanks of their own.

One more comment:

Chandernagore said,

QUOTE

The 61 tons M60 that the Abrams replaced had a ground pressure of 0,79 Kg/cm²

I don't think the comparison with the M60 is relevant at all. While it's true that the Abrams replaced the M60 in the American armed forces, it was definitely not an *upgrade* of the M60. The Abrams was developed from scratch and was an entirely new project. All comparisons between the two are irrelevant - they are worlds apart.

[Florin]

QUOTE

QUOTE ........... How many Romanians were killed in action, or missing in action, or wounded in the countries I mentioned? ...... None.

At last some good news from there!
Thank you also for the rest of the information.

QUOTE

...... The M1 has 1.10 kg/cm².........

So I was close! Good for me, bad for M1 Abrams!
This means this vehicle could sink in the soil during a rainy weather. Or in any other kind of soft terrain. I just have in mind the "adventures" of the Tigers, from Atlantic to Kursk. Fortunately for the M1's, their only combat experience was the 2 wars with Iraq.

Thank you, Cuski, and also, thank you, Chandernagore, for the Internet link you highlighted.

The following text is from the international news of October 29, 2003:

QUOTE

\"Two American soldiers were killed when their Abrams battle tank was damaged by resistance fighters, U.S. officials said Wednesday, as the number of U.S. soldiers killed in combat since major fighting ended topped the wartime total.   In a separate attack, seven Ukrainian troops were wounded in the first ambush of a multinational unit in the Polish sector south of Baghdad, coalition officials said.   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The Abrams tank was disabled when it was struck by a land mine or a roadside bomb Tuesday night during a patrol near Balad, 45 miles north of Baghdad, said Maj. Josslyn Aberle, a spokeswoman for the 4th Infantry Division. A third crewman was evacuated to a U.S. hospital in Germany, she said.   It was believed to be the first M1 Abrams main battle tank destroyed since the end of major combat May 1. During the active combat phase, several of the 68-ton vehicles - the mainstay of the U.S. Army's armored forces - were disabled in combat.\"

Florin

[mabadesc]

Kg/cm3 aside, I wouldn't count on the Abrams to sink in soft terrain. Their excellent performance in the desert surprised the whole world. The British Challenger, for instance, although a very good tank itself, experienced some problems while operating on sand.

And since you mention the Tiger, it may have been an *outstanding* tank 50 years ago, but it would be ridiculous to compare it to today's Abrams. It's kind of like comparing a catapult from Roman times to a ICBM rocket. Different times, apples and oranges...

[Der Maresal]

QUOTE

Well, the tank driver may have been stupid.......but Man, oh Man!, what a great tank the M1A1/M1A2 is.  Impressive!

I don't think the driver was stupid in this case, and the tank was not stupid either but it lost it's turret which flew through the air after it hit a mine.

....A US "Abrams" MBT was completely destroyed by a landmine on October 27 45 miles north of Baghdad. Two crew were killed. The explosion ripped through the bottom of the tank and threw the turret clear of the tank's body.




- I don't think the west has that much experience in building tanks, = don't forget that Sherman tanks were some of the worst and ugliest tanks of ww2. I think the top tankmakers in the world are Russian, Germans, Israel, French, English, and then the US.
The Abrams is very fuel-inneficient and mechanically unreliable.
They need lots of maintenance. There is no super tank in this world, - each tank is particularly suited to the specifil environment - but the all around best tank (an many will agree with me) is the Leopard II .

[PanzerKing]

I don't believe you know what you are talking about Der Maresal. Just because one M1 gets taken out by a mine the U.S. can't make good tanks? If I remember correctly, thousands of T-55s, T-62s, & T-72s were completely destroyed for the loss of only four M1s in 1991. The Russian's perhaps aren't the best tank builders?

The bottom line is that you have no right to classify all the tanks in the world from best to worst because not all have been combat proven, the M1 on the other hand has. What combat has the Leopard II seen?

I know the M1 is far from perfect (1 mile to the gallon :? ), but it is one hell of a tank. Have you ever seen and been on one? It is truly intimidating, a beast. I would love to see the combat experienced U.S. armored divisions go up against the world's so called best tanks.

[cuski]

QUOTE

I don't believe you know what you are talking about Der Maresal. Just because one M1 gets taken out by a mine the U.S. can't make good tanks? If I remember correctly, thousands of T-55s, T-62s, & T-72s were completely destroyed for the loss of only four M1s in 1991. The Russian's perhaps aren't the best tank builders?   The bottom line is that you have no right to classify all the tanks in the world from best to worst because not all have been combat proven, the M1 on the other hand has. What combat has the Leopard II seen?

I think we've been through this before... you're comparing 50s-70s russian tank design with late 1980s tanks... not a valid comparison. The equivalent of the T-72 would be the M-60 - which wasn't a great tank. If you want to make a valid comparison, then use the T-80, T-84 and T-90s. How many of those have been destroyed by an M1?

QUOTE

I know the M1 is far from perfect (1 mile to the gallon  :? ), but it is one hell of a tank. Have you ever seen and been on one? It is truly intimidating, a beast. I would love to see the combat experienced U.S. armored divisions go up against the world's so called best tanks.

No problem, they already have in the Tank Olympics down in Greece. The Leopard has won. And according to Mr. Greg Fetter, a Senior Defense Analyst employed by Forecast International (an analysis company also employed by the US DoD) Leopard 2 is the best tank at the moment. Link here: http://www.forecast1.com/press/press1.htm