Picture of the Day - "Progress" in Iraq / Update

[Chandernagore]

[Indrid]

HA!!
excellent cover!

[mabadesc]

I guess some people here in the US have asked for Rumsfeld's resignation. He's testifying today in front of congress.

We'll see how it goes...

[Chandernagore]

Beyond the cartoon, the grim reality. Finally Rumsfeld took responsibilty and made serious apologizes. I was slowly getting such a bad picture of the defense minister that I didn't think he would do it. A good and necessary point. But will it be enough ? Rape and murder have to be added now to humiliation and it not going fade away easily.

Reaping the whirlwind : one Iraki leader already told his troops that if a female soldier was captured the men could keep her as a slave. It could become real dirty. It would be better if the "rednecks" be brought to justice quickly...or I would not like to be in the position of the next American POW.

[mabadesc]

QUOTE

It would be better if the \"rednecks\" be brought to justice quickly...

I agree 100%.....and not just justice, but severe justice. Theirs was a double crime: one against the prisoners, and one against the country they serve and fellow soldiers they work with.

Cool cartoon, by the way, thanks for posting it. It's funny but kinda sad at the same time...

[Indrid]

how aout offering those rednecks to the irakis.... and give them a camera too

[Victor]

QUOTE

how aout offering those rednecks to the irakis.... and give them a camera too

Civilized justice is not something an Iraki mob is capable of.

[dead-cat]

i'm pretty sure the law describe adequate measures to deal with such actions, even, or better said especially, the american one.
i'm only concerned that it's not going to be properly applied.

somehow i'm sure, the whole army leadership is not outraged because of the actions, but because somebody was stupid enough to take pictures.

[Chandernagore]

QUOTE

i'm pretty sure the law describe adequate measures to deal with such actions, even, or better said especially, the american one. i'm only concerned that it's not going to be properly applied. somehow i'm sure, the whole army leadership is not outraged because of the actions, but because somebody was stupid enough to take pictures.

I don't think we will get the true picture any soon. Some info hints toward the "few assholes" picture, other toward a broader interrogation "system". I can't tell, its' too fresh. We just lack the time necessary to judge events.

Of course there is something in the American constitution (I think) which tells that you must disobey "unlawfull orders". Interesting point this. It's good that it's there...somewhere. But how in the holly world are soldiers supposed to determine what is lawfull and unlawfull ? Soldiers are not lawayers. Where do you draw the line ? I read that one courageous soldier in that prison was asked for some things and had the moral integrity (and the guts) to ask for written orders. Hats down. He apparently never got them and his CO left him alone. Good....and the soldier should not expect to be promoted this year.

But the real thing is that most orders are not written. The whole military establishment is designed to make people obey orders without asking why and how. And suddenly simple soldiers are supposed to risk their career at every corner ? For if you ever make a mistake and disobey a lawfull order, written or not, you're in deep shit and nobody will drag you out. In these circumstances it takes incredible moral strength and self confidence to disobey an oral order which can be easily contested later by your CO.

We live in utopia here.

[Chandernagore]

Meanwhile, the White House has added an administrative form to cover recent events : presidential apologies [courtesy of J. Radey] :

THE WHITE HOUSE George W. Bush Resident


APOLOGY Form 3331776#VLATE
PLEASE FILL OUT ALL BLANKS or form will be invalidated)

NAME: _____________________________________________________ Prisoner # ___________. Nationality : Iraqi _____ Palestinian _____ Afghan _________ African American ________ Latino _______ Other _______ Location: Abu Ghraib ____ Guantanamo ______ Haifa ______Fort Benning GA. _______NY Correctional Facility _______ Gender: MALE___ FEMALE___
Level of sincerity: 1-10 (choose one) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Degree of Mutilation : 1-10 (choose one) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10


Gift basket: Yes No
Send BIBLE Gold leaf Regular
Halliburton Discount coupons: Yes No
Autographed picture of GWB: Yes No
Flight suit replica insert: Yes No
Flag: (choose one only) Standard (with Allah reference)
New (no Allah reference)
Card from Laura Yes No
Burger King Gift Certificate Whopper Regular

Dear Mr and Mrs ___(insert parents' name here) _________,

I, President George W. Bush, on behalf of myself and The Wonderful American People, wish to extend my (choose one) deepest __ most sincere ___ belated ___ apologies on the unfortunate abuse _______ torture _______ sexual humiliation _______ death _______ of your ____(insert gender here)________, _______(insert abusee/torturee/corpse/ name here)______________.

He/she (choose one only) was Choose one: made to perform forced sex: _____ masturbate ____ lie on other prisoners naked _____ wear a leash and walk like a doggie____ Wear a hood _____ endure electric shock ______ eat pork _____ By one of our normally brave soldiers ____ civilian contractors ___ CIA Ops _______ Embedded Journalists _____ who are normally fighting for the great causes of freedom, democracy, and liberation. We want you to know that ______(insert first name here) _____________ was/is a very special ____(insert gender here)____, and endured torture___ suffered abuse ____ suffered humiliation____ was raped ___ died _____ in the most heroic and courageous way. The actions by our normally brave soldiers ____ civilian contractors ___ CIA Ops _______ Embedded Journalists _____ Do NOT reflect what I know to be AMERICA or The AMERICAN PEOPLE. Our War on Global Terrorism will go on, and we will be victorious, due to the sacrifice of men/women like ___(insert name here)____.

(If necessary:) Please let us (choose one: sincerely__ profusely __ genuinely ___ Omit __) apologize for not being able to attend the funeral.

Sincerely yours,

_______________________ George W. Bush Resident Commander - In- Thief United States of America

[cnflyboy2000]

[quote="Chandernagore
I don't think we will get the true picture any soon. Some info hints toward the "few assholes" picture, other toward a broader interrogation "system". I can't tell, its' too fresh. We just lack the time necessary to judge events.
[/quote]

I agree. :|

At the moment It doesn't look good. From this morning's events, Bush appears to be "digging in" with Rummy in the bunker. I predict John McCain, the Republican senator from Arizona who was a prisoner of the Viet Cong during THAT war, will lob some more grenades in there, and they will eventually have to throw out a body (Powell?).

Of course, B. could by now very well have a dagger firmly planted between Rummy's shoulder blades. Bush Pere' and R. went to the mat early and often during the Ford Administration, and R. almost choked the old man's political throat then,

McCain is the real deal, as opposed to Bush and Cheney, who both failed to put their personal asses on the line are when it came to wars they r both so fond of. He (McC) occupies the Republican high ground right now, and u can almost hear the Republican hoplites running up to join him there.

One thing is for sure: the neocon agenda is history, for now.

People (right AND left) here don't know wheter to s---t or go blind over these photos. The irony, IMO. is compared to most wars, this stuff is fairly small potatoes. (Don't send me any rants, ty. I know it is bad enough.)

If there were photos available of Sadamm's depredations for even one day of his regime, I'm sure all the Iraqi's would want him back, because he was so kind to them and would never have allowed this kind of thing to happen.

[Chandernagore]

QUOTE

The irony, IMO. is compared to most wars, this stuff is fairly small potatoes.   (Don't send me any rants, ty. I know it is bad enough.)   If there were photos available of Sadamm's depredations for even one day of his regime, I'm sure all the Iraqi's would want him back, because he was so kind to them and would never have allowed this kind of thing to happen.

Well, sure. On a quantitative scale it doesn't compare. But that's not what is so sad. After jettisoning the WMD casus belli, the Bushites jumped to another : bring the western value of democracy to Irak. In that light it just doesn't look well to indulge in the same kind of bullying behavior than the regime you just kicked out. It kind of undermines the purpose of the whole affair and any pretense at morale high ground.

So what have we left ?

[Chandernagore]

QUOTE

McCain is the real deal, as opposed to Bush and Cheney, who both failed to put their personal asses on the line are when it came to wars they r both so fond of.  He (McC) occupies the Republican high ground right now, and u can almost hear the Republican hoplites running up to join him there.

Cnflyboy, who is this Mc Cain and how exactly can he/will he impact Republican politics ?

[Chandernagore]

I find this moving :

There is no honor

I harbor no illusions that Secretary Rumsfeld will resign, or be impeached. The President is far too mired in the muck, the web of deceit, corruption, and irresponsibility for him to fire one of his closest advisors--because ultimately, the final responsibility lies with him, in the Oval Office.

Harry Truman, an honorable man, once said of the Presidency, "The buck stops here". Not with these men and women, for whom honor, dignity, and responsibility are merely partisan watchwords, to be mouthed but not lived. Rumsfeld and Bush may be dubbed "The Honorable" for the rest of their lives, but they are not honorable.

In the end, the only thing we have in this life, as people and as a nation, is our honor. This Administration has grieviously tarnished our national honor, by their deeds and their attitudes. What the sergeants and privates did at Abu Ghraib--and, it must be mentioned, other places and other times, from the beginning of this war till now--wasn't done in a vacuum. It was done because people from the bottom all the way to the top didn't think it was a matter worthy of condemnation until the whole world knew about it.

That's why there is no honor. And that's why tonight, I weep silent tears of shame and rage at what was done in my name.

http://arkhangel.blogs.com/counterpoint/20..._is_no_hon.html

[Florin]

As of today (May 10th, former Romanian national holiday...), Red Cross and Amnesty International claimed they issued various reports about the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners. The reports were issued months ago, even one year ago, and were addressed to the American and British leaderships. No official bothered to react, until the very recent matter with the photos becoming public.

To Mabadesc and Chandernagore: According to the very recent statement of the Red Cross and Amnesty International, what happened in Iraq was common practice in many prisons, and not the isolate act of 17 people.