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> Picture of the Day - "Progress" in Iraq / Update
cnflyboy2000
Posted: May 25, 2004 08:45 pm
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[i]Subject: From a National Guardsman


And its comment:http://www.orwelliantimes.com/2004/04/26.html


yes, that deconstruction of the letter is devastating. The right loves trying to use these kind of "facts". (and the left, too, truth be told). thanx to web is harder to get away with it I believe.

Re speech last nite: A couple of things speak volumes. imho; (1.) Networks refused to carry it in primetime; was only on cable. (2.) fact that it was made at all, shows how far the s--t has gone into the fan. (3.) NYT called his 5 steps "merely a recitation of the tasks ahead". (don't look for either admission of screwups or originality from this admin).

Look on bright side; neocons r dead in the water; even the old cons r jumping ship left and right. They won't be invading Syria anytime soon. Bush's poll numbers r melting like ice cream in August. (slim majority disapproves of his presidency, for first time.) I think he is "one and done" (termwise).

But, please, don't underestimate ability of U.S. We will, one way or another, get out of this. And move on. Hopefully in more realist direction.
Nobody thinks the Muslim headcases r going away anytime soon. Nobody I know thinks democracy is dead, even there.

Concomitantly, there will be a recognition, even by the neocons, that people who can argue for days about the price of a rug r not gonna be Jeffersonians tomorrow, much less decide how to divide their oil.

Best idea I heard so far: Give all Iraqis a mutual fund share in their oil. That way, they have a vested interest in getting along (Shia/Sunni/Kurd), and not blowing each other and their production facilities to hell along with any Americans they can get their hands on.
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Chandernagore
Posted: May 26, 2004 08:07 am
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But, please, don't underestimate ability of U.S.  We will, one way or another, get out of this.  And move on.  Hopefully in more realist direction.


Which will require political, not military abilities.

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Nobody thinks the Muslim headcases r going away anytime soon.


Yes. But that's another war.

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Nobody I know thinks democracy is dead, even there.


Did anyone say that ? If Bush can be elected and then be shot down in flames by the American electorate I think it's pretty standard theory in democracy smile.gif

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Best idea I heard so far: Give all Iraqis a mutual fund share in their oil.  That way, they have a vested interest in getting along (Shia/Sunni/Kurd), and not blowing each other and their production facilities to hell along with any Americans they can get their hands on.


Why not. AS long as the US don't try to impose a post war military occupation (which would fuel AQ) and resist the temptation to set up a pro US puppet government... Irakis must know what is going to happen, when and how. Once the cards are on the table, if the hand is good, hostile activity will melt... like ice cream in august biggrin.gif And then you can deal with the true islamic nutcases :? (those that where not intially there but entered as a result of invasion).

One of the possible "more realist" directions was oulined in NYT :

A good start, first put forward by the Center for American Progress in Washington, is to go much further in internationalizing the next phase of the Iraq operation. Mr. Bush could convene a summit meeting to create a multinational group to oversee the transition. The U.N. Security Council could step up its participation by appointing an international high representative who would actively supervise the interim Iraqi government until the first round of elections. Senator John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee, has proposed restructuring the military force in Iraq under NATO, with an American commander. Mr. Bush should pursue that at the NATO summit meeting next month.

This is all very fine but I don't think President Bush will emotionally survive such a course of action for let's remember that he devotly believes:
1. in the ultimate coercive power of unilateral military action
2. that foreign policy is just a nuisance
3. that UN is a joke

That puts some severe limits when attempting to communicate with the rest of the planet :rollroll:
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Chandernagore
Posted: May 26, 2004 05:49 pm
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When was it last time that Bush went on a visit in Europe, or Japan or South America, whatever ? I can remember a lot of US presidents doing this regularly but, strangely, not Bush. Does this chief of state ever meet others outside US ? Or is my poor memory failing me ?
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PanzerKing
Posted: May 26, 2004 09:35 pm
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When was it last time that Bush went on a visit in Europe, or Japan or South America, whatever ? I can remember a lot of US presidents doing this regularly but, strangely, not Bush. Does this chief of state ever meet others outside US ? Or is my poor memory failing me ?


No, he rarley does because almost every foreign leader is invited to his ranch in Texas. It seems like almost monthly we have fighter jets and troops here in my city (he flys in and out from our airport) because of some leader that is visiting.
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Chandernagore
Posted: May 27, 2004 12:23 am
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Mmm. Reminds me some oriental despot from Arabian tales laugh.gif

Two long but eloquent articles. One by Al Gore, the other by P Buchanan (before he caved in to political pressure, I guess).

When a business enterprise finds itself in deep trouble that is linked to the failed policies of the current CEO the board of directors and stockholders usually say to the failed CEO, "Thank you very much, but we're going to replace you now with a new CEO -- one less vested in a stubborn insistence on staying the course, even if that course is, in the words of General Zinni, "Headed over Niagara Falls."

http://www.amconmag.com/3_1_04/cover.html
http://www.moveonpac.org/goreremarks052604.html

It's heartening to see that darkness can't cover the whole N American continent.
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Florin
Posted: May 27, 2004 06:22 am
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I just learnt from my mother that "Fahrenheit 911", made by Michael Moore, took the Grand Prize at Cannes. tongue.gif
...And also she told me that Tony Blair wanted more troops for Iraq, but the British population rejected the plan. And also other things... 8)

Who could dream 14 years ago that common people in Romania would be one day better informed about international news than those from the United States... In the morning of December 22, 1989, there were more than 500000 people in the center of Bucharest as demonstrators, but the Communist TV, in its last minutes, still warned as illegal gathering exceeding 5 people... It seems at least in one point, Romania is in the right direction...
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Chandernagore
Posted: May 27, 2004 08:38 am
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Officials Convinced Attack on U.S. Is Being PlannedBy Susan Schmidt and John Mintz, Page A01
The nation's top law enforcement officials, saying they are convinced al Qaeda is planning an attack on the United States in the coming months...


No doubt, Al Quaeda would dearly want Bush to be reelected, therefore it would be a very risky gambit to make such an attack before the elections. Perhaps it would create another "payback" shockwave favorable to Bush. But it could as well have the opposite effect of highlighting the phenomenal incompetence of his clique. Mmm....
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Alexandru H.
Posted: May 27, 2004 12:04 pm
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I went to see Bush last year when he came in Bucharest... I managed to enter in the "security zone" with my portable CD player and a coat that had many metalic parts... ah, they just let me in.... :twisted:... Romanian security:)
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Chandernagore
Posted: May 27, 2004 12:35 pm
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What ? You were in the killing zone and you didn't even throw your CD player at him ? (or worse, the CD player with a manele song in it) :x

You could have become a hero, the savior of liberal civilization, the anarchist of your own dreams :!: :rollroll:

Poo pooh !
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Victor
Posted: May 27, 2004 03:39 pm
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An interesting article about the US and French politics. Unfortunately only in Romanian.
http://www.ziua.net/display.php?id=14807&d...data=2004-05-27
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cnflyboy2000
Posted: May 27, 2004 04:45 pm
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When was it last time that Bush went on a visit in Europe, or Japan or South America, whatever ? I can remember a lot of US presidents doing this regularly but, strangely, not Bush. Does this chief of state ever meet others outside US ? Or is my poor memory failing me ?

______________________________
He visited California. But I think that counts as another planet, actually.
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cnflyboy2000
Posted: May 27, 2004 04:59 pm
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Two long but eloquent articles. One by Al Gore, the other by P Buchanan (before he caved in to political pressure, I guess).


_________________________
Now, THERE is an odd couple!

U probably already know that P.B., the "old" con flamethrower got his start as a Nixon (u remember him) speechwriter. And Gore (aka Al Bore) is equally famous for being the most wooden speaker in U.S. history and for losing an unlosable election. (Of course he had a "little help from his friends": Ralph (I love Republicans) Nader and Bill (Hand me that cigar, Monica!) Clinton.
Fortunately, Ralphie boy is back to help again this year, and BC......has anyone seen BC?????
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Chandernagore
Posted: May 27, 2004 05:45 pm
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An interesting article about the US and French politics. Unfortunately only in Romanian.


Mmm, a short resume, someone ? We're slowly closing on D-Day, the traditional cease fire day between France and US laugh.gif

Too bad that the new US president is not yet elected and cannot catch this opportunity to bridge the worlds once again.
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Victor
Posted: May 27, 2004 07:48 pm
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Here is the short version:

America's problems are also Europe's problems

It starts by showing that French antipathy towards America is not as new as Michael Moore thought when he held his speech at Cannes. It can be dated back as far as the 18th century, when the opinions on America were not that good among French intellectuals. The superiority of the 18th and 19th century, however turned during the 20th century into an inferiority complex, as France's influence and power diminished, while American power increased.

Then it shows the major problems the Bush administration has created both internally and externally (Iraq, Kyoto and International Penal Court).

And finally says that the present French unilaterian politic is not only Bush's doing, but also inderectly European impotence. Europe hasn't been able to manage the crisis in its own backyard in the Balkans and its voice does not carry that much weight in international affairs. After the Madrid bombing Spain changed the government and retreated its troops, practically inviting Al Qaeda to mount further strikes in Europe. It distanced itself from the US, its natural ally. France especially did not do anything to help streighthen the European position, on the contrary. It left NATO in a difficult time, it built the nuclear plant, which could have been able to build nuclear arms if not bombed by the Israelis, it sold the Iraqis the air defence system and a lot of weapons etc, etc.

In conclusion, the US has been pushed into this hegemonical position by the ambiguity and lazyness of its natural European allies.
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Chandernagore
Posted: May 27, 2004 11:07 pm
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Thanks for the resume, Victor. But what a piece of neocon ass licking excercise :-) Americans are from Mars and Europeans from Venus eh ? :rollroll:

Especially this : After the Madrid bombing Spain changed the government and retreated its troops, practically inviting Al Qaeda to mount further strikes in Europe

Typical neocon reasoning. Well, what was witnessed in Spain is democracy working like a charm. The anti-war population kicked out it's pro-war government. Smart if harsh political strike by AQ. But the Spanish didn't give a damn about how Al Quaeda was going to react to the events. You don't cow the Spanish into submission. It's a very proud, robust nation if there ever was one. If there was popular support for Irak no amount of terrorism was going to change their mind. But there wasn't much and the Spanish showed it.

About European influence, the article seems to recognize only one type of influence : military power. Certainly that kind of influence is real. Well, when EU will need to invade someone I guess it will adapt it's military spendings. I don't hold my breath however.

As for Europeans being responsible for US hegemonical tendencies... ahem ...we will sooner see pigs in flying formation.
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